tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post2078265181448357267..comments2024-03-21T19:29:24.316-07:00Comments on Adventures In Stoving: DIY Alcohol Stoves -- Basic Design PrinciplesHikin' Jimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-69742385379950489992017-03-18T13:06:39.290-07:002017-03-18T13:06:39.290-07:0016 Oz. Bud Light Aluminum Bottle / 5.5 Oz. V8 Can ...16 Oz. Bud Light Aluminum Bottle / 5.5 Oz. V8 Can Sub 4 Min. Burner <br /><br />Fuel Cup: The Bottom of Bud Aluminum Bottle cut @ 1 7/16” height over all length.<br /><br />Inner Cylinder: Remove the paint if desired while the can is full and then empty it. Invert the can and drill a hole in the center of the concave surface and in large the Fuel Fill Port Hole to 7/8 of an inch in diameter, then cut the over all length to1 ¾ inches. Add 3 to 4 half round fuel vents to the bottom (open side) on the inner cylinder with a ¼” paper hole punch, and your Inner Cylinder is complete.<br /><br />Ceramic Fiber Paper Wick Source: https://www.fire-parts.com/products/ceramic-fiber-paper-gasket-sheet Cost: $ 9.95 Shipping, $8.00 Priority Mail 2-3 Days or so.<br /><br />Making The Wick: The material comes as a 1/8” thick X 12” wide X 24” long sheet. Measure up 1 ½” inches and draw a line with a pencil and a straight edge across the 12” width side, then cut off the 1 ½” wide X 12” long strip with scissors. Now measure L to R, 1/4 “ inch in at the top of the strip, and 3/4” of an inch in at the bottom of the strip, and draw a diagonal line between the two marks. Now measure and mark 7 and 1/8” inches down from each diagonal mark and mark a second time, and draw a second diagonal line, then cut on the two diagonals and the wick is complete.<br /><br />Putting The Burner Together: Roll the wick around something like a broom handle and insert it into the Bud Fuel Cup and release. The Wick will spring out and keep it going in that direction by forcing it out and against the walls and down into the U-shaped junction of the bottom and sides of the fuel cup. The wick will overlap slightly when you meet the juncture point, so keep working it around until the two ends drop down into place with a little prodding. Now what you should have is a fuel cup with a ring of wick material that sticks up about 1/8” of an inch above the top edge of the aluminum fuel cup.<br /><br />With the fuel vent side of the Inner Cylinder turned down, start to insert the inner cylinder into the fuel cup/wick assembly. This will be a tight fit and it will not go in all the way by itself. A thin, narrow knife blade stuck between the protruding metal edge and the wick material and worked around it will pull the wick material out enough get everything thing in. When everything is straightened up, gently push the inner cylinder down into the wick until the bottom of the inner cylinder meets the bottom of the metal fuel cup and you can see the wick slightly sticking out of the fuel vents, which you will be able to see by looking down through the Fuel Fill Port Hole. <br /><br />Curing The Burner: The Ceramic Fiber has an organic binding agent included in it as part of the manufacturing process that has to burn out before the wick will work as intended. The binding agent will leave a sticky amber residue behind on the metal surfaces above and below the exposed wick, which can be cleaned away with alcohol and a cloth. On the first burn, the flame will sputter, spark, and flare up considerably. Things will settle down on each successive burn and all of these problems should be gone in 3 to 4 or so burns.<br />Karl Klavonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10106924689249049925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-74923613321083683872017-02-14T23:16:11.482-08:002017-02-14T23:16:11.482-08:00Good projects, all, Ando. I hope you'll take ...Good projects, all, Ando. I hope you'll take the time to drop by here again and report your findings.<br /><br />HJHikin' Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-78730055034440336992017-02-14T04:21:55.229-08:002017-02-14T04:21:55.229-08:00I tried 2 hole diameters to try and make it more l...I tried 2 hole diameters to try and make it more like a trangia (light up from the top rather than preheat from the bottom outside). The smaller hole presents risks when lighting as the gas expands on ignition and pushes fuel out through the jets - which lights as well. Probably worse in warm weather. Not advised for use under a fly sheet in bad weather or near expensive clothing and sleeping bags.<br />If fibre glass loft insulation in there it would reduce that but then its sucking up fuel that should be at the bottom ready to go up the outside wall to the jets.<br />I recently looked at the Toaks capilliary stove and thought about using a thin layer of fibre glass insulation around the edge inside - between outside wall and internal wall. This would suck up fuel in the place where its needed and preheated. As very thin walls dont suit soda can design I also want to try more solid hairspray aluminium bottles. A thin double wall to try and copy the Toaks stove and if needed, thin fibreglass woll layer between to suck up the fuel.<br />A lot of stove designs I tested were not so different in burn time and boil time. The best were the original closed soda can (except for preheat needed) and open top for easy lighting. I had double walls in them anyway and baffles in that to reduce wind effects and improve preheat.andohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07103572022068893703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-75572247693563302582015-12-13T08:03:31.372-08:002015-12-13T08:03:31.372-08:00For those who might be interested, I thought it wo...For those who might be interested, I thought it would be good to provide some information on the cost, materials, and construction of the Trangia Bicycle Spoke Pot stands.<br /><br />1. The stainless steel bicycle spokes cost a dollar a piece from a bicycle shop a few days ago, plus tax of course. I asked for 14 gage, straight, not budded. Which was enough material to make 3 complete pot stands, so if you make a mistake on your first try it is not the end of the world. The bicycle axle Hub end of the spoke already has a flange 90 degree bend in it that can be used as the pot support head, the other end of the spoke is threaded, and if you got the spoke nuts to join the spoke to the bicycle rim, they might also have some stove related uses. On my first stand, I used a brass tube provided by a ball point pen ink refill to make the JB-Weld on feet. Subsequent stand's heads and feet were made out of the spoke material itself, which is probably heavier but also a simpler and more elegant solution I believe. <br /><br />2. The Simmer Stand measures about 3 inches long over all.<br /><br />3. The Fast Boil Stand measures 3 and 5/8ths inches long over all.<br /><br /><br />4. Later, I figured out that wood meat skewers cut long and easily cut to length and tested for burner to pot flame height made a great non-material wasting way to determine the pot stand shank length. Of course you have to add in the bend, head, and foot pot support material needs to the shank length, which adds on about another inch or so of total material length needed.<br /><br />5. All the bends were made with the aid of vice-grip pliers and hand pressure, and two pairs of pliers were better than only one, with the second pair having a narrower set of jaws. A hammer was also useful to tighten the bends and flatten the stands after bending. I used the back blank portion of a big file as an anvil, lacking the real thing.<br /><br />6. Once the stand has been used, the head end will change color, making it east to tell the top of the stand from the bottom. To set the completed stand into the burner fuel well, slide the split ring up toward the head end above half way. Then splay the feet slightly apart as you lower the stand into the tank. The feet will probably not all come out properly aligned. If not, pull the offending leg up slightly by the head and rotate it back into the proper alignment, then lower it into the wall/bottom juncture and space it out properly, repeat as needed with the remaining legs. It may take a bit of fiddling to get all 3 legs properly aligned. But once you achieve alignment, the stand is surprisingly stable and secure. By now the need for the 90 degree foot offset bend should become readily apparent, which is another way to tell the heads from the feet on these pot stands. And I tried to curve the foot bottoms to match the curve of the tank wall. Here, shorter feet are easier to make and steady than longer ones are.<br /><br />Conclusion: There you have it. Probably more than you ever needed or wanted to know on how to make and use Trangia Bicycle Spoke Pot Stands. Karl Klavonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10106924689249049925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-59794203253517368592015-12-12T20:34:33.113-08:002015-12-12T20:34:33.113-08:00I found the Nivea 1/2 inch lift boil and run out t...I found the Nivea 1/2 inch lift boil and run out time test results. It was done with a 1" DIA. concave fill hole on an earlier inner cylinder prototype. Boil time was 10:00 minuets; carbon felt flame run out time was 16:00 minuets,and full flame out time was 19:00 minuets.<br /><br />I also tested inner cylinders that were both shorter and longer than the length I finally settled on. But the longer ones still had to be short enough to fit inside of my Primus tea pot, which could only have a maximum height of about 1 and 7/8ths of an inch for the inner cylinder's height.<br /><br />I also tested different fill hole diameters starting with a 1/4 inch hole size, the same as the Mark Jurey Penny Stove fill hole has that I have been using for the last 10 years. Upon ignition, there was a loud bang and the inner cylinder, carbon felt wick, alcohol, and pot with two cups of water in it, were all blown off of the pot stand and out of the pot and stove. The sleeve hit the ceiling with resounding thud. With a 1/2 inch DIA. hole, there was still a loud pop when the alcohol lit, but everything stayed in place that time. I believe the boil time was in the 5 minuet plus range - not good enough to even bother recording. Drilling the cylinder out to 11/16ths of an inch, the pop was a lot quieter and the boil time dropped to 4 minuets and 30 seconds, which was the best time I had gotten up to that point. But the hole was a bit on the rough side and slightly out of round, so I dressed it up with a 3/4 inch wide file that would just pass through the hole when I was done. I retested the boil time with the slightly bigger hole and it held at the 4:30 mark, so I quit right there. Earlier, I had also tested inner cylinders with 1 inch and 1 and an 1/8th inch wide holes. The boil times for those were 4:40 and 5:00 minuets respectively. A short (1 and 5/16ths) inner cylinder with a 1 and 1/4 inch hole clocked in with a 5:30 boil time, with a carbon felt run out time of 13:00 minuets, and a flame out time of 14:00 minuets. I believe it is fairly obvious that there is a pretty linear progression linking fill hole size with the speed of the boil times, with the faster boil times also resulting in faster run out times as well. <br /><br />The Trangia tests were done with 3-Spoke Bicycle Spoke Pot Stand in a simmer length and a fast boil time height, consisting of 3, S/S bicycle spoke segments with a U-shaped bend at the top of each spoke segment for the pot to sit on, and a 90 degree off set horizontal bend on the bottom, also looped back on itself to hopefully keep the S/S split rings from sliding off of the spoke segments. The split rings were pilfered from an old, no longer used, fishing plug. The purpose of the rings is to keep the spokes together and make them more stable as they rest in the fuel well of the Trangia burner and on the underside of the pot. This makes a tripod for the pot to sit on and the spacing is one spoke every 8 jets. Setting the spokes in between two of the jets instead of on a jet keeps them cooler and robs less heat from the flames. They do not weigh much or take up very much room and can be carried in a plastic bag in your preferred cooking pot. Just some food for thought. Karl Klavonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10106924689249049925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-65727668900459373332015-12-12T10:37:54.588-08:002015-12-12T10:37:54.588-08:00Great post and sight; tons of useful information t...Great post and sight; tons of useful information to be found here as well. I noticed you do not have any representations of wick feeding alcohol stoves in your stove line up. Here is a link to information on one of the best alcohol stoves there is out there IMO, which solves the priming, waiting for blooms, and poor below freezing alcohol stove performance problems - the Fancy Feast/Carbon Felt alcohol stove: https: //www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XQVKLlLQjw<br /><br />The burner I eventually came up with is a little different from Hiram Cook's version, total burner height on my unit is 1 13/16th inches, with no included pot stand so it will fit inside of my Primus 0.9 L Litech Kettle tea pot. <br /><br />Instead of using a tomato paste steel can as Hiram did for the inner cylinder/pot stand, I found some aluminum body and hair spray cans at the 99 Cent Store that are the right diameter - 2-1/16 to 2-1/8th inches and much more substantial than soda/beer cans. I tried these in both the convex and concave configurations, as well as testing different fill hole diameters, with the best results coming in with the concave shape and a fill hole diameter of 3/4s of an inch, and with 4, 5/32" diameter vent holes drilled below the carbon felt burner line, and 4- weep notches paper punched at the bottom of the cylinder for alcohol access to the carbon felt wick, wrapping the cylinder with a 1 1/2" tall carbon felt wrap, all going into the bent down inner ridge Fancy Feast cat food can. <br /><br />The Primus .9L pot is 6" wide x 2.2 inches tall, so I'm using a 3-leg s/s bicycle spoke pot stand that is 2 3/4 inches tall, to get the 1" magic sweet spot alcohol flame height, and that has given me a 2-cup / 1 oz of fuel boil time of 4:30, and a carbon felt run out time of 13:45, with a full flame out time of 16:40, which I believe is a pretty efficient burner.<br /><br />I also found that a simmer ring isn't really needed. Placing a 1 oz. Nivea tin under the Fancy Feast burner reduces the flame to the bottom of the pot distance to 1/2 an inch. On the Trangia burner with a 1/2 inch shorter pot stand, the boil time was lengthened from 5:30 to 14:00 minuets, with a run out time of 23:00 minuets total recorded. Sorry, evidently I didn't record the run out time on the Fancy Feast burner test when I did it at the 1/2 inch flame height, but it seems like the run out time was nearly doubled over what it was at the 1 inch height. I hope this is of some help to any and all who choose to suffer through and read all of this.<br /><br /> Karl Klavonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10106924689249049925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-91549697123254366982013-02-27T12:52:37.347-08:002013-02-27T12:52:37.347-08:00Ian, 2 cups in < 5 mins with ~0.5 fl oz is real...Ian, 2 cups in < 5 mins with ~0.5 fl oz is really good (I assume fluid ounces). What fuel are you using? What was the starting temp of the water? What was the ambient temperature? <br /><br />HJHikin' Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-73121321257157571702013-02-27T11:57:31.934-08:002013-02-27T11:57:31.934-08:00Nice article. Very interesting.
For my own use, I...Nice article. Very interesting.<br /><br />For my own use, I have found a 4 jet Groove Stove from a 7.5oz (2" diameter) soda can with the entire center cut out and about 1" high works best for me and my mini Trangia pot and a 2.5" stand . I get 2 cups of water boiled in under 5 mins with a shade over 0.5oz fuel used. I like my tea hot and I like it fast.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18047425211193661981noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-22703056777246465362013-02-01T20:33:00.113-08:002013-02-01T20:33:00.113-08:00Whoa! I'm glad that you didn't set anythi...Whoa! I'm glad that you didn't set anything on fire. Refilling a stove that is supposedly out is a very common accident. Supposedly a pinch of salt in the alcohol will help you see the flame better, but I haven't tried it yet. Thanks.<br /><br />HJHikin' Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-2333464616692238552013-02-01T15:13:13.715-08:002013-02-01T15:13:13.715-08:00I almost burned the barn down. was poring heet in ...I almost burned the barn down. was poring heet in my stove that I thought was burnt out. it shot flaming heet on the table and wall about 5' away. the flames went out without setting anything on fire. Petehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16820248317151411322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-76997296713770629952012-12-21T22:44:25.767-08:002012-12-21T22:44:25.767-08:00Hi, Rick,
I'm glad you found the post helpful...Hi, Rick,<br /><br />I'm glad you found the post helpful. <br /><br />Take care,<br /><br />HJHikin' Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-37444889370185665842012-12-19T11:38:22.742-08:002012-12-19T11:38:22.742-08:00Jim,
Just wanted to drop you a note and say thank...Jim,<br /><br />Just wanted to drop you a note and say thanks for all the great information. It really helped when I made my first stove.<br /><br />http://www.rickacheson.blogspot.com/2012/12/my-first-diy-alcohol-stove.htmlAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04066082519907984572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-76761677647335457452012-06-27T09:19:21.979-07:002012-06-27T09:19:21.979-07:00There are a variety of factors (it gets pretty com...There are a variety of factors (it gets pretty complex), but yes the volume of the "chamber" affects the mix which in turn effects combustion.<br /><br />HJHikin' Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-2756402271713693142012-06-25T21:07:37.160-07:002012-06-25T21:07:37.160-07:00you know, it could be that the height of the stove...you know, it could be that the height of the stove matters, because within the inner wall (mixing chamber?) is where the fuel and air mixing takes place. Having more or less room in the mixing chamber may affect combustion at the jet, by making the combustion mixture more or less efficient..https://www.blogger.com/profile/15108828392172006466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-4154690837789567622012-01-20T13:06:12.516-08:002012-01-20T13:06:12.516-08:00Ah! I see what you mean. Yes, varying the hole...Ah! I see what you mean. Yes, varying the holes will cause different air flow patterns and alter the thermal feedback of the system, both of which will affect burn characteristics.<br /><br />HJHikin' Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-21351370931990040902012-01-20T07:19:08.990-08:002012-01-20T07:19:08.990-08:00Airflow obviously is important also. I'm refer...Airflow obviously is important also. I'm referring to having the same hole configurations but the holes are at different heights. Having them closer to the fuel burns hotter.Michael Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09953494951306815978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-1695695468654247272012-01-19T19:17:28.987-08:002012-01-19T19:17:28.987-08:00Interesting thoughts. That hasn't been my exp...Interesting thoughts. That hasn't been my experience. My observation is that it has a lot more to do with airflow than the distance from the fuel to the flame. YMMV.<br /><br />HJHikin' Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-63641520200133697032012-01-19T14:44:14.350-08:002012-01-19T14:44:14.350-08:00I agree with Emiliano as far as height goes at lea...I agree with Emiliano as far as height goes at least. Having flames too close to the alcohol will cause it to burn hotter - too far and it will not burn hot enough. You need to find the sweet spot where the thermal feedback is just right. Of course, it will vary some with the conditions so a person ideally should test at close to same temp they expect, of course.Michael Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09953494951306815978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-74731587621817942962012-01-18T12:34:11.777-08:002012-01-18T12:34:11.777-08:00Hmm. Well, that's a little different from my ...Hmm. Well, that's a little different from my experience, but if it's working for you, great.<br /><br />HJHikin' Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-60748878760934340772012-01-18T12:19:25.916-08:002012-01-18T12:19:25.916-08:00Hi, I notices that what matters is not the shape o...Hi, I notices that what matters is not the shape or ratio itself, but instead, the amount of heat that feeds back the stove for the alcohol to volatilize. And thats why you have to pay atention to materials and hole/jets placing... :) <br />Excelent article!!Emilianohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07731602695003833992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-51191072373565402752012-01-04T19:08:03.206-08:002012-01-04T19:08:03.206-08:00Yeah, definitely play with it. You'll just ha...Yeah, definitely play with it. You'll just have to find out what "X" amount of alcohol can do in your particular stove.<br /><br />HJHikin' Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-61364606164851018732012-01-04T16:08:50.815-08:002012-01-04T16:08:50.815-08:00That's why I fueled it with 10 mL. I got right...That's why I fueled it with 10 mL. I got right at 10 minutes of pretty constant flame and then about 3 minutes of diminishing flame before it went out. It burns about 1 mL per minute. Now I just need to find out how much water it will boil.Bill Gileshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14489162998247361041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-89388182221685561762012-01-04T11:29:18.333-08:002012-01-04T11:29:18.333-08:00Hi, Bill,
Yes! Alcohol stoves make great little s...Hi, Bill,<br /><br />Yes! Alcohol stoves make great little shirt pocket stoves if you're just out on a short day hike or what have you.<br /><br />The trick with fuel is to learn how much fuel your stove takes to do the normal tasks of cooking that you do. You then bring a little measuring cup and measure out just that amount of fuel. You let the stove burn itself out, and voila! no leftover alcohol.<br /><br />HJHikin' Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-530397660420120892012-01-04T05:40:30.868-08:002012-01-04T05:40:30.868-08:00I've got all of the stuff to build one and I d...I've got all of the stuff to build one and I did just that over the weekend. I used glass wool as the filler and the thing actually worked. This little stove has some real advantages as a lightweight, compact way to boil water, but it has some drawbacks. Since the alcohol is absorbed by the filler, you can't pour it out if you don't use all of it. With the integral pot stand, you can't easily cap the stove to keep the fuel from evaporating. You will need to bag the stove or find a canister with a tight fitting lid to store it in. The canister would be additional weight to carry. I think that the best use of this type of stove would be for a day hike. Just something to boil water for coffee or noodles. With a 2 Oz. fuel bottle, it would still almost fit in your shirt pocket.Bill Gileshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14489162998247361041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-35780394417477183112012-01-02T18:59:44.229-08:002012-01-02T18:59:44.229-08:00Hi, Bill,
The Starlyte has a very good reputation...Hi, Bill,<br /><br />The Starlyte has a very good reputation. Let me know how it goes if you get a chance to give it a spin.<br /><br />HJHikin' Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.com