tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-43598231789323439802024-03-15T18:09:28.226-07:00Adventures In StovingInvestigations into and adventures with backpacking stoves including solid fuel (e.g. ESBIT), alcohol, gas, "white" gas (Coleman type fuel), wood, and kerosene.Hikin' Jimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.comBlogger200125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-91099990488514735152018-11-22T11:41:00.002-08:002018-11-22T11:49:37.195-08:00The MSR XGK-EX Behold the blast-furnace beast: The MSR XGK-EX: powerful, simple, dependable.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiVneZBqlzEhVpS3tA5vH5pRUf0kb_uJshHFDBHIMriI9gHv0vxf_iewmrP2wPPecSj0s9oYvLYlTOeHgq4ItJy1SQyDoE50zhnhKAkgVyQxKweEyvJ5tXesLarC3WaBKFrAXmmDdhIy30/s1600/DSC03123.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="902" data-original-width="1600" height="360" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiVneZBqlzEhVpS3tA5vH5pRUf0kb_uJshHFDBHIMriI9gHv0vxf_iewmrP2wPPecSj0s9oYvLYlTOeHgq4ItJy1SQyDoE50zhnhKAkgVyQxKweEyvJ5tXesLarC3WaBKFrAXmmDdhIy30/s640/DSC03123.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The MSR XGK-EX doing what it does best: Cranking out the BTU's</td></tr>
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It's been a while since I've had the opportunity to do a stove review (work, family, studying, etc.), but the opportunity to review an XGK-EX came up, and it was with the Section Hiker blog, a blog with which I've had successful collaborations with in the past. And, given that winter fast approaches, what better stove to review than a tried and true snow melter?<br />
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<span style="font-size: large;">A bit of background</span><br />
The XGK line of stoves from MSR really ushered in the modern stove era. A lot of stoves prior to the introduction of the XGK line were good stoves but were heavy, vulnerable to wind, and because of their small fuel tanks, required the carrying of a separate fuel bottle for refilling. The Model 9, the first stove in what became the XGK line, was a significant step forward in terms of design and technology. Larry Penberthy, the founder of MSR, was a engineer with a gift for innovation who loved mountain climbing. He just wasn't satisfied with the gear of his day and decided he could do better. It was Mr. Penberthy, for example, who really introduced non-wooden handles on ice axes. Prior to Mr. Penberthy, pretty much everyone was still using wooden handles on their ice axes.<br />
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The latest installation in the XGK line is the XGK-EX. Without further ado, let me provide you with a link to the review on Section Hiker:<br />
<a href="https://sectionhiker.com/msr-xgk-ex-liquid-fuel-stove-review" target="_blank">https://sectionhiker.com/msr-xgk-ex-liquid-fuel-stove-review</a><br />
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I hope you fine the review to be of interest.<br />
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Thanks for joining me on another Adventure in Stoving,<br />
<br />
HJHikin' Jimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-76412457359729423142018-01-03T21:59:00.003-08:002018-01-08T21:41:27.862-08:00The New MSR Windburner Remote Canister Stove – Review SupplementMSR has come out with a remote canister version of their popular Windburner stove.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjwUjZyQyvQ5cN1It5o_XFlEbNWdp6HwmQtr67FKKx0xCbh-xddBSMDcxS3qsF-ALasVAXFJSVq3gc8zeBtYPOzq9czYVrf0o-ZnpIoqWrQDEbwVjA30OsXTGT09093PsI9Qt2fh9z6eLY/s1600/DSC02857.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="902" data-original-width="1600" height="360" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjwUjZyQyvQ5cN1It5o_XFlEbNWdp6HwmQtr67FKKx0xCbh-xddBSMDcxS3qsF-ALasVAXFJSVq3gc8zeBtYPOzq9czYVrf0o-ZnpIoqWrQDEbwVjA30OsXTGT09093PsI9Qt2fh9z6eLY/s640/DSC02857.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The new remote canister version of the MSR Windburner </td></tr>
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I've posted a full <u><b><a href="https://sectionhiker.com/msr-windburner-group-stove-system-review/" target="_blank">review of the new remote canister Windburner</a></b></u> on the SectionHiker.com website.<br />
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This blog post is a review supplement where I will post extra photos and a chart of weights that didn't make it into the review.<br />
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<span style="font-size: large;">Chart of Weights</span><br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhYwY06eQ21ZBPauBnPxPZKxLtBakyUsvEjrUo-cj6kSDOJ-u3YpwSs49kAqPu4VABJ2tsx6y2UYe8qroYBr4nsiZYPdqp12LQO1uDVQSm4h7tck00zWHWZfcEV7D6KacDUXACw_rUJ0EA/s1600/MSR_Windburner_Remote_Canister_Weights.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="154" data-original-width="287" height="213" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhYwY06eQ21ZBPauBnPxPZKxLtBakyUsvEjrUo-cj6kSDOJ-u3YpwSs49kAqPu4VABJ2tsx6y2UYe8qroYBr4nsiZYPdqp12LQO1uDVQSm4h7tck00zWHWZfcEV7D6KacDUXACw_rUJ0EA/s400/MSR_Windburner_Remote_Canister_Weights.jpg" width="400" /></a></div>
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The new burner is about 52 grams/1.8 ounces heavier than the original. Interestingly, the new burner packs down into about the same amount of space as the original.<br />
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Note that the original canister stand weighs 0.6 oz, and the canister stand on the 1.8 L version weighs 0.7 oz. One would not need to take a canister stand with the remote burner, so <b>the real difference between the two is about one ounce</b> – if you typically bring the canister stand. I personally don't always bring the canister stand on the 1.0 L version, but I typically do bring the canister stand on the 1.8 L version.<br />
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<span style="font-size: large;">What's the difference? </span><br />
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What's the difference between the original burner and the new remote burner? Well, take a look at the photo below. The original burner, left, is an upright (top mounted) type burner that screws directly onto the canister. The new burner, right, is a remote type burner that is connected to the fuel by a hose.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj8XdBPu_6oYzTLK5XB0-31jONNGEz739bzGSpsXH8Wv0wZ5fxNK_oFK6zSiZYd3oVWUtu8b0-Bl2GLQOZf6Kc_mkul8ybPaBWExwRwa4KdgJ_NLu0PyhCs9S_wI6IeXr9QCxgZYFQjjx0/s1600/DSC02915.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="902" data-original-width="1600" height="360" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj8XdBPu_6oYzTLK5XB0-31jONNGEz739bzGSpsXH8Wv0wZ5fxNK_oFK6zSiZYd3oVWUtu8b0-Bl2GLQOZf6Kc_mkul8ybPaBWExwRwa4KdgJ_NLu0PyhCs9S_wI6IeXr9QCxgZYFQjjx0/s640/DSC02915.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Original upright burner, left.<br />
New remote burner, right.</td></tr>
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A remote style burner sits a lot lower, especially on larger sized fuel canisters, and is generally more stable. A remote burner can support larger pots. Notice in the below photo how much lower the remote burner sits.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjo5y9a9Q75jLjU57C60P9JI_4uaHjt4ogkdKj_Jvpdt4XLoaJbM4UxOqPNZeaUmuL7Y6pIsqgSEKXLnsY0tbjmtnbgXaKVCsQ-rrKYFrEWmV3GqnwL5JSnwD_nsDqiIiRzzbimsowGIKU/s1600/DSC02908.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="902" data-original-width="1600" height="360" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjo5y9a9Q75jLjU57C60P9JI_4uaHjt4ogkdKj_Jvpdt4XLoaJbM4UxOqPNZeaUmuL7Y6pIsqgSEKXLnsY0tbjmtnbgXaKVCsQ-rrKYFrEWmV3GqnwL5JSnwD_nsDqiIiRzzbimsowGIKU/s640/DSC02908.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Left: New remote burner, with 2.5 L pot.<br />
Middle: Original burner with 1.0 L pot<br />
Right: Original burner with 1.8 L pot</td></tr>
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With the introduction of the remote burner are two new pots, a 2.5 L and a 4.5 L pot, both pots that are much larger than would be practical on the original burner. However, any Windburner pot will fit on any Windburner stove. MSR will continue to offer both the original upright burner and the new remote burner. Also introduced is a new Windburner frying pan with a ceramic based non-stick coating. The 2.5 L pot also has the non-stick coating. In my cooking, I have to say that the non-stick feature really works well.<br />
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<span style="font-size: large;">Mix and Match</span><br />
As I said, any Windburner pot (or pan) can be matched with any Windburner stove. It's up to you to decide which combinations are practical. In the below photos, I've swapped the 1.8 L and the 2.5 L pots, placing the 1.8 L pot on the remote burner and the 2.5 L pot on the upright burner.<br />
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I'm not sure how many people would put the 2.5 L pot on the original upright burner, but the 1.8 L pot on the new remote burner is definitely a winner. MSR will be selling this combination, the 1.8 L pot with the remote burner, as a standard set – although you can still buy the 1.8 L pot with the original burner if you prefer.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj35MWSa6pA4iimpljtwphqLkeHZKSOYEAKF0VvgdY7IJiTJUmldAJMedAYI2PT4TfwxmCB3HQjcxfmXV_acZIEmxtNp7FDAc8ALnIGW240I5H4XBuSKHked_bO-o2QaOOoMwx3sZQuY8o/s1600/DSC02910.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="902" data-original-width="1600" height="360" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj35MWSa6pA4iimpljtwphqLkeHZKSOYEAKF0VvgdY7IJiTJUmldAJMedAYI2PT4TfwxmCB3HQjcxfmXV_acZIEmxtNp7FDAc8ALnIGW240I5H4XBuSKHked_bO-o2QaOOoMwx3sZQuY8o/s640/DSC02910.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Here, I've switched the 1.8 L pot (left) over to the remote burner.<br />
The 2.5 L pot (right) is now on the original burner.</td></tr>
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<span style="font-size: large;">Firesteel</span><br />
Several people have asked, "can I use a firesteel to light the stove?" Yes, absolutely. In fact, the wide burner of the Windburner is just absolutely perfect for use with a fire steel. The rim around the burner helps retain the gas at the burner head and helps funnel the sparks right into the burner. The Windburner is one of the easiest gas stoves that there is to light with a firesteel.<br />
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Incidentally, MSR makes a really nice firesteel, a firesteel I actually prefer over the Light-My-Fire brand. MSR's lanyard is longer and easier to use. Light-My-Fire's lanyard always seems to be just a tad too short which I find aggravating. MSR's lanyard is long enough to slip it over one's neck while working around the "kitchen" area of one's camp, which I find convenient.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhxmcabZ_RUguL4C2mrK9VNaZXFlxEk3IfjTe74eeRFyDo8UxaeSGkkJT__llYbWydCzFlci_r0pFpapmDjoQ5ovfkleFcurzRJzJ061zc61wib7Bd6QnuMC5fHnuVkZ3k-vM5eEfhjqLs/s1600/DSC02785.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="902" data-original-width="1600" height="360" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhxmcabZ_RUguL4C2mrK9VNaZXFlxEk3IfjTe74eeRFyDo8UxaeSGkkJT__llYbWydCzFlci_r0pFpapmDjoQ5ovfkleFcurzRJzJ061zc61wib7Bd6QnuMC5fHnuVkZ3k-vM5eEfhjqLs/s640/DSC02785.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">A fire steel is the perfect way to light a Windburner.<br />
The fire steel shown here is the excellent MSR firesteel which I actually prefer over Light-My-Fire.</td></tr>
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<span style="font-size: large;">Who wants it?</span><br />
Well obviously groups. The new remote burner will support a 2.5 L and even a 4.5 L pot. For any use other than snow melting, I generally recommend about 750 ml capacity per person (I recommend 1.5 L capacity per person for snow melting). Thus, the 2.5 L pot is more than adequate for three people and would do for four if you were just doing simple cooking (i.e. just boiling water type cooking).<br />
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The 4.5 L pot would be suitable for up to six or seven people.<br />
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Not only would groups want the larger pots but also families with children, Scout groups, or any group that wanted a more stable pot set up than the tall original burner provides.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEig-jRsj0pd9tQ9jLF_CmUAPXLLOHC7Dz_ZjkOKtuJ856jzThzrgFFOMCYN3mTyEi5Y_gNLsQ8o12lNK4ecHKtfHGDXevNvxyZGbEQVxY-nrdjbYfEU067k1n4lQFPv_NxPmGLz8zGygUM/s1600/DSC02797.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="902" data-original-width="1600" height="360" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEig-jRsj0pd9tQ9jLF_CmUAPXLLOHC7Dz_ZjkOKtuJ856jzThzrgFFOMCYN3mTyEi5Y_gNLsQ8o12lNK4ecHKtfHGDXevNvxyZGbEQVxY-nrdjbYfEU067k1n4lQFPv_NxPmGLz8zGygUM/s640/DSC02797.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The new remote burner provides a stable cooking platform for the more junior hiker.</td></tr>
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<span style="font-size: large;">Cooking ability</span><br />
I mention it in the full review, but I just want to reiterate that the new 2.5 L pot on the new remote style Windburner is an excellent cooking system. On New Year's Day, I made a really nice, fluffy frittata using nine eggs. It's hard to get a frittata with nine eggs cooked all the way through without burning the bottom. The new Windburner with 2.5 L pot did an excellent job of it. The new remote burner with the new 2.5 L pot (or the optional frying pan, sold separately) is a <b>greatly</b> improved cooking system, a system upon which one can do some real cooking. It may not be the ultimate Gourmet set up, but it does a danged good job on things beyond just boiling water.<br />
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As always, thanks for joining me,<br />
<br />
HJ<br />
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<b><span style="font-size: large;">Appendix I – Product Information and Technical Details</span></b><br />
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Manufacturer:<span style="white-space: pre;"> </span><span style="white-space: pre;"> </span><span style="white-space: pre;"> </span>MSR, a division of Cascade Designs.<br />
Date available:<span style="white-space: pre;"> </span>Currently available.<br />
MSR Website:<span style="white-space: pre;"> </span><span style="white-space: pre;"> </span>http://www.cascadedesigns.com/MSR<br />
MSRP:<span style="white-space: pre;"> </span><span style="white-space: pre;"> </span>$199.99 (USD)<br />
Stated Weight:<span style="white-space: pre;"> </span>598 g/21.1 ounces<br />
Measured Weight:<span style="white-space: pre;"> </span>598 g/21.1 ounces<br />
Materials:<span style="white-space: pre;"> </span>Aluminum pot with steel (primarily) burner.<br />
Burner Dimensions: <span style="white-space: pre;"> </span>9 cm/3.5" tall, 9.5 cm/3.75" wide. (Packed)<br />
Pot Dimensions: <span style="white-space: pre;"> </span><span style="white-space: pre;"> </span>15 cm/6" tall, 18 cm/7" wide – with approx. 1 cm (0.4”) additional for pot handle hinge.<br />
Size/Model tested:<span style="white-space: pre;"> </span>2.5 L/84 fl. oz. pot with remote type burner.<br />
Requirements:<span style="white-space: pre;"> </span><span style="white-space: pre;"> </span>A standard threaded canister of gas (sold separately).<br />
Warranty info:<span style="white-space: pre;"> </span><span style="white-space: pre;"> </span>See MSR website, above<br />
Colors Available:<span style="white-space: pre;"> </span>Gray<br />
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<b>Disclosures</b><br />
<span style="font-size: x-small;">The stove in this review was provided at no cost to me by Section Hiker with the understanding that I would review the stove as I saw fit, in other words, with no restrictions or preconditions. I have reviewed the stove accordingly. Neither I myself nor Adventures in Stoving have any financial relationship with MSR, the manufacturer of the equipment reviewed. In addition, I receive no remuneration for the writing of this review nor do I receive any benefit from the sale of any stove discussed in this review.</span><br />
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<br />Hikin' Jimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.com18tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-44862416080877593692017-12-03T08:25:00.000-08:002018-06-24T18:27:27.252-07:00Deal Alert! (Soto WindMaster on sale)The Soto WindMaster is on sale for $55 on Massdrop (a "group buy" site) – if just ten people sign up. That's an outstanding deal for a stove that often retails for $20 more (i.e. $75 is normal).<br />
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Adventures in Stoving is typically about evaluating stoves, not about promoting sales, but a lot of people have expressed interest in the WindMaster, and this is as good of a deal as I've seen.<br />
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Please understand that I derive no percentage of the sales. There are no "affiliate links" or anything like that. This is just a good deal I noticed.<br />
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<span style="font-size: large;"><u>Links</u></span><br />
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<ul>
<li>Direct link to the sale: <b><u><a href="https://www.massdrop.com/buy/soto-windmaster-stove?referer=ETFBT7" target="_blank">https://www.massdrop.com/buy/soto-windmaster-stove?referer=ETFBT7</a></u></b></li>
<li>If you're not already a member of Massdrop, you can sign up using this link: <u><b><a href="https://www.massdrop.com/?referer=ETFBT7" target="_blank">https://www.massdrop.com?referer=ETFBT7</a></b></u></li>
</ul>
Note that if you use that link (if you aren't already a member), you get a $10 credit, and I also get a $10 credit. <br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-9iVP1JjM3gE/UkJvthGuMSI/AAAAAAABcJ0/JN4jDxMqDeQ7IEULUKUzCdgIfkVunPIoACPcB/s1600/DSC04106.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="358" src="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-9iVP1JjM3gE/UkJvthGuMSI/AAAAAAABcJ0/JN4jDxMqDeQ7IEULUKUzCdgIfkVunPIoACPcB/s640/DSC04106.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="font-size: 12.8px;">Cold weather testing the WindMaster.</td></tr>
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<span style="font-size: large;"><u>The Stove</u></span><br />
It's no secret that I consider the Soto WindMaster to be the best quality upright canister stove on the market today. See my <u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2016/11/the-soto-windmaster-worlds-lightest-gas.html" target="_blank"><b>review of the Soto WindMaster</b></a></u>. It's wind resistant in a way other stoves of this class just aren't (well, except for its budget minded cousin, the <u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2016/12/review-soto-amicus.html" target="_blank">Amicus</a></u>), and it's a good balance of versatility, efficiency, and weight. Not only that, it's just quality in every respect.<br />
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<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-YJjbwi4RIp8/UiAco62aqpI/AAAAAAAAnKk/ZZqGYgIcC1wMoWLitEFoI-lZ77KukvBHwCPcB/s1600/DSC03636.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="358" src="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-YJjbwi4RIp8/UiAco62aqpI/AAAAAAAAnKk/ZZqGYgIcC1wMoWLitEFoI-lZ77KukvBHwCPcB/s640/DSC03636.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="font-size: 12.8px;">The Soto WindMaster</td></tr>
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<span style="font-size: large;"><u>Rumor Control</u></span><br />
There were rumors that Soto was going to discontinue distribution of the WindMaster in North America, but, no. I spoke to the Soto rep, and Soto has no plans to discontinue the WindMaster.<br />
<br />
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: left; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-w8vFHbeaveM/UoBaLQASrDI/AAAAAAAAru8/_C0Ur37yoD4T_GvJFSj9afdWCOxrzKFsACPcB/s1600/DSC05419.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="358" src="https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-w8vFHbeaveM/UoBaLQASrDI/AAAAAAAAru8/_C0Ur37yoD4T_GvJFSj9afdWCOxrzKFsACPcB/s640/DSC05419.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="font-size: 12.8px;">Simul-testing the WindMaster against a "control" stove.<br />
The WindMaster is at left.<br />
No matter the conditions, the WindMaster <i>always</i> came out ahead – while using less fuel.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
I hope this is helpful to someone, and I do hope you will forgive the commercial intrusion on this, a site focused on what we do in our lives outside of work (well, unless you're a guide or something).<br />
<br />
HJ<br />
<br />
<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td><a href="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Oh4bL_Mq3T0/Uq1dIVmRDcI/AAAAAAAAsLc/mMDA4r79sXk5gOUZkoR4R11SxowFeNf0gCPcB/s1600/DSC05849.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="358" src="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Oh4bL_Mq3T0/Uq1dIVmRDcI/AAAAAAAAsLc/mMDA4r79sXk5gOUZkoR4R11SxowFeNf0gCPcB/s640/DSC05849.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="font-size: 12.8px;">Performance testing the Soto WindMaster against a "control" stove.<br />
Note: The individual in the photo is a highly trained stove professional.<br />
Don't try this at home (seriously, go for a hike; you have a much better stove already in your kitchen at home).<br />
Apologies for the waste generating food shown in the photo. We got a free case because they were due to expire.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
Hikin' Jimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.com6tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-91469613491782679442017-09-19T22:37:00.001-07:002017-09-19T22:37:55.857-07:00The Kovea EZ Eco – "Canisterless" Canister StoveLast year, I wrote a <b><u><a href="https://sectionhiker.com/kovea-ez-eco-alpine-pot-and-stove-review/" target="_blank">review of the EZ Eco</a></u></b> version of Kovea's Alpine Pot. At the time, the EZ Eco was having some "technical difficulty." Kovea did not market the product at that time and went back to the drawing board to work out some of the kinks based on my feed back.<br />
<br />
A few months ago, they sent me a re-worked version. I have reviewed the stove, and there is now a <b><u><a href="https://sectionhiker.com/kovea-ez-eco-refillable-canisterless-stove-review/" target="_blank">New Review of the Kovea EZ Eco</a></u></b> on SectionHiker.com.<br />
<br />
The stove I used in my review was sort of a pre-production version, the version they started selling in Korea before they started selling them here in the US. Just after I finished my review, I got a production US version, with the same markings and color as the version now commercially available in US. Naturally, it had to come a week or two <i>after</i> I had already written and submitted my review, lol, but other than the color and some other cosmetic changes, the stove I reviewed is the same stove as is now for sale in the US. I will include a couple of photos here of the production version just so you can see what it looks like and exactly what you will get if you buy one.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgEvSnQZOAJxpkJZB4K49d5pA1tro-OUuZke8euYhQHPiGIQCvl8gRnNozIOM8j6rhlxlQAuZcx4S5NowZgCAkqR4UNTExYaQb9TOXYJGRXR5ZxirQrAU-F1C4WNIvZa9EmP0aIHafV8oM/s1600/DSC02729%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="902" data-original-width="1600" height="360" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgEvSnQZOAJxpkJZB4K49d5pA1tro-OUuZke8euYhQHPiGIQCvl8gRnNozIOM8j6rhlxlQAuZcx4S5NowZgCAkqR4UNTExYaQb9TOXYJGRXR5ZxirQrAU-F1C4WNIvZa9EmP0aIHafV8oM/s640/DSC02729%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">What's in the box?<br />
Top, L to R: Stove bag, pot, and lid<br />
Bottom, L to R: Cup, burner, and instructions<br />
Between the instructions and the lid, notice the adapter. See review for details.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEje5k1PH9Y5jeWfvCWkJiSDiCW4E7jn8RjlXQONrfDGfJH8d-c-g0YqBgio-wexvM72BitZzc3DhwVmz1PPnbWItCvvpjX0ZTL66oIhFrni1e6CPWTgXUPdqZCUCTJsYJ4z8VlGB_H2geE/s1600/DSC02727%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="902" data-original-width="1600" height="360" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEje5k1PH9Y5jeWfvCWkJiSDiCW4E7jn8RjlXQONrfDGfJH8d-c-g0YqBgio-wexvM72BitZzc3DhwVmz1PPnbWItCvvpjX0ZTL66oIhFrni1e6CPWTgXUPdqZCUCTJsYJ4z8VlGB_H2geE/s640/DSC02727%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Here's a top down look at the whole assembly. <br />
Note the rubber band like "straps" to retain the lid.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
OK, not a whole lot to see here, so head on over to Section Hiker and have a look at the full review.<br />
<br />
Thanks for joining me,<br />
<br />
HJHikin' Jimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-60212084174641567372017-08-21T22:47:00.000-07:002017-08-28T21:35:20.882-07:00Interactive Canister Gas Estimation SpreadsheetI've put together something that I hope will be useful. It's an Excel spreadsheet that you can <i>customize</i> to fit your particular stove and your particular situation. You can use Google Sheets if you don't have Excel on your device.<br />
<br />
This spreadsheet should work for conventional stoves (e.g. Pocket Rocket, GigaPower, Crux, etc.) as well as high efficiency stoves (e.g. Jetboil). The download link will be down at the bottom of this post, after the explanations<br />
<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhQeiJ4kRfdiBZEwL5ClPFyug4ANWWZFToQCcSzwLa9XWhdWdDw_pSbzEb08yLu0_OOtCjUagX5xIZAtlaHdTrMeXFAfr2cppwKn8km802dLunEHPFQKTuOOycOh9o0MaW6FCC2xlN_A7I/s1600/Purple_Lake3.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="901" data-original-width="1600" height="360" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhQeiJ4kRfdiBZEwL5ClPFyug4ANWWZFToQCcSzwLa9XWhdWdDw_pSbzEb08yLu0_OOtCjUagX5xIZAtlaHdTrMeXFAfr2cppwKn8km802dLunEHPFQKTuOOycOh9o0MaW6FCC2xlN_A7I/s640/Purple_Lake3.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Headed out for a week? Nice! Uh, how much fuel do you need?<br />
Purple Lake, John Muir Wilderness, Sierra National Forest, Sierra Nevada, California.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Enter Your Numbers</span></b><br />
So, it's relatively straightforward. You, based on your needs and your experience, enter four numbers into the spreadsheet as listed, below. I'll go through some examples after the list to hopefully help you understand how this works. It's pretty simple, really.<br />
<ol>
<li>The number of cups (about 250 ml per cup for those of you who prefer metric) of water you plan to boil per day, on average.</li>
<li>The number of grams of fuel your particular stove burns to boil one cup of water. If you don't know, I recommend that you use 4 g for conventional stoves and 3 g for high efficiency stoves (like a Jetboil) until you get a better idea of what your stove requires. You might add a gram (i.e. 5 g and 4 g, respectively) for water temperatures around 5 C/40 F or lower. Double the estimate (i.e. 8 g and 6 g) if you're melting snow.</li>
<li>The length of your trip (number of days).</li>
<li>Your margin for error. This is sort of a "fudge factor". You add a bit more extra gas in case it's windy or maybe you just underestimated how much water you'd need to boil. As you gain more experience, you can dial this back.</li>
</ol>
<div>
Remember, all four of these numbers are under <i>your</i> total control. You set the parameter, and the spreadsheet will tell you what size canister it thinks you should bring. Note that I have the following canister sizes programmed into the spreadsheet: 100, 110, 220, 230, and 450 grams.</div>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi8eBHLSP6wBBabYqAqaG5cmaXL08YYOxXE6l91waIcph_9-gVVEIyijRSotvkAT3IsOPTzyO4lYJVgy_oAvQRzkYTyj_XzvkiuiCDdSWQSCcqNdbCoMwKSsWhW323_6P8fOo_RUWshMoQ/s1600/Duck_Lake9.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="901" data-original-width="1600" height="360" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi8eBHLSP6wBBabYqAqaG5cmaXL08YYOxXE6l91waIcph_9-gVVEIyijRSotvkAT3IsOPTzyO4lYJVgy_oAvQRzkYTyj_XzvkiuiCDdSWQSCcqNdbCoMwKSsWhW323_6P8fOo_RUWshMoQ/s640/Duck_Lake9.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Isn't this a great spot? Say, we did bring enough fuel to have dinner tonight, didn't we?<br />
Duck Lake, John Muir Wilderness, Sierra National Forest, Sierra Nevada, California.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<div>
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Example 1.</span></b></div>
<div>
In this example, I'm going to go out for five days. See the chart, below. I'm going out with a partner. Say, on average, that we both boil about five cups per day and that we have a conventional stove like, say, a Pocket Rocket. We're going to enter all the numbers that describe our trip and our needs in the <b><i>gray</i></b> shaded cells. The spreadsheet will then recommend in the <b><i>yellow</i></b> shaded cell what size of canister <i>at a minimum</i> that you should bring based on the parameters that you've entered.<br />
<br />
Let's go through the example:<br />
<b>Line 1.</b> If we both boil 5 cups each, then we'd boil a total of 10 cups per day, on average. Enter the number <b>10</b> on line one in column "B" in the gray, shaded area on line 1. <br />
<br />
<b>Line 2.</b> Since we have a conventional stove, we'll use "4" as the number of grams we expect to burn per cup on line 2. Now, this assumes that you know the <b><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2015/01/fuel-economy-efficiency-with-stoves.html" target="_blank">Basics of Stove Fuel Economy</a></u></b>. If you're not familiar with how to get good fuel economy with a backpacking stove, I suggest that you read through the <b><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2015/01/fuel-economy-efficiency-with-stoves.html" target="_blank">Basics of Stove Fuel Economy</a></u></b>.<br />
<br />
<b>Line 3.</b> Next, let's enter then number of days our trip will be. I said five, but I'm going to enter just 4.5. Why? Well, I'm planning to exit on the last day well before supper time. Really, the last day is only going to be a half day, so I'm adjusting the amount of fuel I think I'll need by dropping the length of the trip by 1/2 a day.<br />
<br />
<b>Line 4. </b>Do <i>not</i> touch line four. Remember, only enter numbers into the gray shaded cells.<br />
<br />
<b>Line 5. </b> Now, Line 5 is your "fudge factor," your safety margin. We are NOT going to estimate the number of grams we think we'll need and cut it off exactly there. No, we're going to add just a bit more in case something goes wrong or we're off somewhere. Now, if you really know your stove, your usage, and the <b><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2015/01/fuel-economy-efficiency-with-stoves.html" target="_blank">Basics of Stove Fuel Economy</a></u></b>, then have at it. Cut the margin down to zero if you like. It's <i>your</i> spreadsheet once you download it, but I'm going to recommend a 10% safety margin until you know differently.<br />
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj6SGzddiXjUR8csGe0fx1qHRax0-qMi5yrSYoAlcupZdm6DKQ47NFI5XzjcIh5tfdjs_g-LVTf0hYmMCsEvJrgAcVYDRlVYSP8mb1KJVnQ2NFoby2fk3rbTlG0doc3RbQmmBDnb4y4ETg/s1600/Gas_Estimate_5_Days_10_Cups_Day.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="368" data-original-width="570" height="411" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj6SGzddiXjUR8csGe0fx1qHRax0-qMi5yrSYoAlcupZdm6DKQ47NFI5XzjcIh5tfdjs_g-LVTf0hYmMCsEvJrgAcVYDRlVYSP8mb1KJVnQ2NFoby2fk3rbTlG0doc3RbQmmBDnb4y4ETg/s640/Gas_Estimate_5_Days_10_Cups_Day.jpg" width="640" /></a></div>
Based on our estimate that we, on average, will boil 10 cups of water per day (line 1) and that with our conventional stove will need 4 g of fuel per cup boiled (line 2) and that our upcoming trip will be 4.5 days long (line 3) and that we want a 10% margin for error (line 5), the spreadsheet determines (line 6) that you need 198 g of fuel. The spreadsheet then, in line 7, tells you what minimum canister size you should bring in order to have that 198 g of fuel. In this case the spreadsheet recommends that you bring at least a 220 g sized fuel canister.<br />
<br />
Now, notice line 8. This is the amount of fuel we will have over our estimated need. We need 198 g but our canister holds 220 g which means we have 22 g of fuel in excess of our estimated need.<br />
<br />
The spreadsheet then tells you (line 9) about how many extra cups that excess fuel will give you if you need it.<br />
<br />
Lastly, the spreadsheet tell you how many additional cups you could boil per day based on this excess fuel (line 10).<br />
<br />
Why might you want to know how many additional cups per day you have the capability to boil? Well, half way through our last trip, someone gave us some coffee they weren't going to use. Suddenly, we had enough coffee to have not one but two cups of coffee each morning. But do we have enough gas? Hopefully, with line 10 of the spreadsheet, you'll know if you have the gas for that second cup of coffee.<br />
<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhiVm3GiqXnbF3Yy8S9qCQC4g_KCbjKyyggMtP4aBGaMMIe-MH8jY3j_DOT_yzwYLI4U48X5YcqoV1iyzv_gD5gKelylCADjK7zy5kHqaRLijHEc94KHtKiumOOznCK05WE_fN2js_wAE8/s1600/Silver_Divide2.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="901" data-original-width="1600" height="360" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhiVm3GiqXnbF3Yy8S9qCQC4g_KCbjKyyggMtP4aBGaMMIe-MH8jY3j_DOT_yzwYLI4U48X5YcqoV1iyzv_gD5gKelylCADjK7zy5kHqaRLijHEc94KHtKiumOOznCK05WE_fN2js_wAE8/s640/Silver_Divide2.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Let's see, it's three more days until we re-supply. You did bring enough gas for three more days, right?<br />
The Silver Divide, John Muir Wilderness, Sierra National Forest, Sierra Nevada, California.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Example 2.</span></b><br />
<div>
In this example, I'm going to go out for three days. See the chart, below. Again, I'm going out with a partner. Again, let's say, on average, that we both boil about five cups per day, but this time we're going to be sharing a Jetboil type stove.<br />
<br />
Let's go through the example:<br />
<b>Line 1.</b> If we boil 5 cups each per day, then we'd enter "10<b>"</b> on line one in column "B" in the gray, shaded area.<br />
<br />
<b>Line 2.</b> Since we have a Jetboil stove, we'll use "3" as the number of grams we expect to burn per cup, on line 2.<br />
<br />
<b>Line 3.</b> Next, let's assume our trip lasts a full three days. Therefore, I enter "3" on line 3.<br />
<br />
<b>Line 4. </b>Do <i>not</i> touch line four. Remember, only enter numbers into the gray shaded cells.<br />
<br />
<b>Line 5. </b> Let's just stick with 10% as our safety margin.<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgBysD9hHd6nceaZXs1CSFC2_9YRWpa1u-YLcp2ZhytKbT31QWxszbRLyzIU9k1W_I-RmXyCTg43Tutgo__l2o2ssdwfOlZ61rZvgAIPMmu6ynh7PcsDQpmg8ILu8C_TSZ5e8zIbrchgFY/s1600/Gas_Estimate_3_Days_10_Cups_Day_Jetboil.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="369" data-original-width="571" height="411" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgBysD9hHd6nceaZXs1CSFC2_9YRWpa1u-YLcp2ZhytKbT31QWxszbRLyzIU9k1W_I-RmXyCTg43Tutgo__l2o2ssdwfOlZ61rZvgAIPMmu6ynh7PcsDQpmg8ILu8C_TSZ5e8zIbrchgFY/s640/Gas_Estimate_3_Days_10_Cups_Day_Jetboil.jpg" width="640" /></a></div>
<br />
Now, on line 6, our baseline estimate + our margin for error comes to a total of 99 g. The spreadsheet therefor in line 7 recommends that you buy a 100 g canister. Is that cutting it too close? Probably not. Remember, that we've already got a 10% margin for error in there. However, 110 g canisters are typically just as cheap as 100 g canisters. I personally would just get the 110 g canister just so I have a slightly larger margin for error, but each to his or her own.<br />
<br />
But notice line 8. You only have 1 g in this example of "excess" fuel. Just one gram. In other words, if someone gives you coffee or something, you may not have the gas to boil water for it. This is important! I wouldn't want to eat a cold backpacking dinner in the evening because I had burned up all my fuel on a second cup of coffee in the morning. If I don't have the gas to do something, then I want to know, in advance. This estimation spreadsheet gives you an idea of how much slack you do – or do not – have.<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Conclusion</span></b><br />
Thanks for bearing with me through all the explanations. I hope I was reasonably clear. If it wasn't clear, please use the comments section, below, to ask questions. There are no dumb questions. If it's not clear, ask.<br />
<br />
Now, the link. You can download the Excel spreadsheet using <b><u><a href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7Bz3y6oiAlLb1VlTW15cjdDR00/view" target="_blank">Google Docs</a></u></b>. If you don't have Excel on your device, you can open the spreadsheet with the Google Sheets app.<br />
<br />
Please let me know in the comments, below, if you have any problems with the link or the spreadsheet.<br />
<br />
Thanks for joining me,<br />
<br />
HJ<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgJGHUxPuYRxmFiVq3nRbE879agMfVAfAQv6k8N6K_d1zrscKxDTHEPL-5a6d8fmt071OuqB8XLCEITASdznKzJ4-mQHzfVk1RCyXvU9pAlKJSkMonq5QbmeO5O7VtqMHPFgwC9utSdsfc/s1600/HJ_Sallie_Keys_Lakes.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="729" data-original-width="972" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgJGHUxPuYRxmFiVq3nRbE879agMfVAfAQv6k8N6K_d1zrscKxDTHEPL-5a6d8fmt071OuqB8XLCEITASdznKzJ4-mQHzfVk1RCyXvU9pAlKJSkMonq5QbmeO5O7VtqMHPFgwC9utSdsfc/s640/HJ_Sallie_Keys_Lakes.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The author at Sallie Keys Lakes on the John Muir Trail.<br />
You're danged right I had enough gas!</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<br /></div>
</div>
Hikin' Jimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.com15tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-65816909394108378002017-05-21T21:08:00.001-07:002017-06-10T14:23:37.455-07:00What is a Light (or Ultralight) Canister Stove?The words "light" and "ultralight" get thrown around like so much chump change. Marketers play fast and loose with those terms hoping to score a few more gear sales. Is there a way we can assign real meaning to these terms?<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiXnrsIQIKrkczmZyvJqLxIFTZiTAsQM_WdFzOEiG7NyKoK477VkV8LpS23pv9GfNkKad4GlwNFkbQwtr7s57atcwcfa2VTsyGhJ7g-gcbyHvYhOMAqP-FFvErl0p40L6u11o9c1oajAqA/s1600/IMG_6491.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiXnrsIQIKrkczmZyvJqLxIFTZiTAsQM_WdFzOEiG7NyKoK477VkV8LpS23pv9GfNkKad4GlwNFkbQwtr7s57atcwcfa2VTsyGhJ7g-gcbyHvYhOMAqP-FFvErl0p40L6u11o9c1oajAqA/s640/IMG_6491.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">An FMS-116T "Gnat" stove weighs less than two ounces.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
Actually, there is. We can "grade on the curve." <br />
<br />
What the heck do I mean by that? Well, when I was in school, some instructors would look at the scores on their tests, expecting to see a "normal" (bell shaped) curve. If the center of the curve didn't line up with "average" performance, they might adjust the test scores. In other words, students were judged not just on their test scores alone but on how well they did in <i>relation</i> to the class as a whole. This is referred to as "grading on the curve."<br />
<br />
So also, we can judge canister stoves not just on their weight alone but also on how their weights compare to other stoves in their class.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhMJ-DkPIs-jW9znJbuB6tBZC3-UE8zbFPBqXDgT4jlzT-Rv4iXCl-fWp1H_oaFfbfdu1frzARIa3YOLMcQEYJddXg8RzSFyZ0u3t-LECtMKmusKPep4XmOtCp-EqoMlrgkFe4HiAERcrs/s1600/IMG_6668.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhMJ-DkPIs-jW9znJbuB6tBZC3-UE8zbFPBqXDgT4jlzT-Rv4iXCl-fWp1H_oaFfbfdu1frzARIa3YOLMcQEYJddXg8RzSFyZ0u3t-LECtMKmusKPep4XmOtCp-EqoMlrgkFe4HiAERcrs/s640/IMG_6668.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Some stoves today weigh <i>under</i> one ounce, giving new meaning to the term "ultralight."</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
With that in mind, take a look at the below chart. This chart applies to upright (top mounted) canister stoves only. Obviously "integrated" canister stoves (like a Jetboil or Reactor) and remote canister stoves (like an MSR WindPro or Kovea Spider) have to have their own categories in order for those categories to be meaningful.<br />
<center>
<table border="2" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 240px;"><colgroup><col style="mso-width-alt: 5156; mso-width-source: userset; width: 106pt;" width="141"></col><col style="mso-width-alt: 1938; mso-width-source: userset; width: 40pt;" width="53"></col><col style="mso-width-alt: 1682; mso-width-source: userset; width: 35pt;" width="46"></col></colgroup><tbody>
<tr height="42" style="height: 31.5pt; mso-height-source: userset;"><td class="xl66" colspan="3" height="42" style="height: 31.5pt; width: 181pt;" width="240"><div style="text-align: center;">
Upright Canister Gas Stove <br />
Weight Classes</div>
<div style="text-align: center;">
(Less Than or Equal To)</div>
</td></tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15pt;"><td class="xl63" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15pt; width: 106pt;" width="141"></td><td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 40pt;" width="53">Ounces</td><td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 35pt;" width="46">Grams</td></tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15pt;"><td class="xl64" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15pt; width: 106pt;" width="141">Heavy</td><td class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 40pt;" width="53"><div style="text-align: right;">
4+</div>
</td><td class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 35pt;" width="46"><div style="text-align: right;">
113+</div>
</td></tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15pt;"><td class="xl64" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15pt; width: 106pt;" width="141">Moderate</td><td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 40pt;" width="53">< 4</td><td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 35pt;" width="46">< 113</td></tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15pt;"><td class="xl64" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15pt; width: 106pt;" width="141">Light</td><td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 40pt;" width="53">< 3</td><td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 35pt;" width="46">< 85</td></tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15pt;"><td class="xl64" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15pt; width: 106pt;" width="141">Ultralight (UL)</td><td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 40pt;" width="53">< 2</td><td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 35pt;" width="46">< 57</td></tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15pt;"><td class="xl64" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15pt; width: 106pt;" width="141">Super Ultralight (SUL)</td><td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 40pt;" width="53">< 1</td><td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 35pt;" width="46">< 28</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
</center>
<br />
Upright canister stoves today weigh as little as 25 grams – less than one ounce! There are five commercially available stoves that weigh less than two ounces.<br />
<br />
Given the light weight of stoves available today, it's reasonable to insist on that a stove be truly light in order for it to belong to the class of "ultralight" and to be even more demanding of weight savings for a stove to earn the title "super ultralight."<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhblD-YHfIsW5lnHEbzMts1WsIQal-LRSXSgngnZGEhEV8cIEmL6A-vijNjbIrLkWnaHZcXnrVfw2gOVSAABFaFDveYeHVi1Pjo8xfAl2kQSZ75CAfybuNumC7aySJF_AJVGRytn171g3c/s1600/IMG_6468.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhblD-YHfIsW5lnHEbzMts1WsIQal-LRSXSgngnZGEhEV8cIEmL6A-vijNjbIrLkWnaHZcXnrVfw2gOVSAABFaFDveYeHVi1Pjo8xfAl2kQSZ75CAfybuNumC7aySJF_AJVGRytn171g3c/s640/IMG_6468.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">We give meaning to terms like "light" and "ultralight" by categorizing stoves <i>relative</i> to one another.<br />
Here then are four examples:<br /><i>Top row, right</i>: <span style="font-size: 12.8px;">MSR Pocket Rocket, 3.1 oz (Midweight) </span><br />
<i>Top row, left</i>: MSR Pocket Rocket 2, 2.6 oz (Light)<br />
<i>Bottom Row, left</i>: FMS-116T ("Gnat"), 1.7 oz (Ultralight)<br />
<span style="font-size: 12.8px;"><i>Bottom Row, right</i>: </span>BRS-3000T, 0.9 oz, (<i>Super</i> Ultralight)</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
In summary, based on what is available today, real meaning can be given to terms like "light" and "ultralight" by looking at a given stove's weight in relation to other stoves. Based on those relative weights, I have created the following upright canister stove weight classes:<br />
<ul>
<li><b>SUL:</b> If an upright canister stove weighs less than or equal to an ounce (28 g), it's super ultralight.</li>
<li><b>UL:</b> If a stove weighs less than or equal to two ounces (57 g) but more than one ounce, then it's ultralight.</li>
<li><b>Light:</b> If a stove weighs less than or equal to three ounces (85 g) but more than two ounces, then it's light. </li>
<li><b>Moderate:</b> If a stove weighs less than or equal to four ounces (113 g) but more than three ounces , then it's moderate. </li>
<li><b>Heavy:</b> If it weighs more than a quarter pound (4 oz/113 g), then, by modern standards, it's heavy. </li>
</ul>
The above is a reasonable categorization, given the state of the art and the stoves commonly available today.<br />
<br />
Next time you read an ad or hear a salesman say that a three (or more) ounce stove is "ultralight," just nod your head and say "unh hunh, sure," and have yourself a little chuckle. Now, you know better.<br />
<br />
Thanks for joining me,<br />
<br />
HJ<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">For Further Reading:</span></b><br />
<ul>
<li>For an overall look at canister stoves including an explanation of the advantages and disadvantages of each high level type, please see: <u><b><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/04/canister-stoves-compared-compendium-of.html" target="_blank">Canister Stoves, Compared – a Compendium of Canister Stoves</a></b></u>. </li>
</ul>
<ul>
<li>For a look at upright (top mounted) canister stoves, please see: <b><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/03/upright-canister-stoves-state-of-art.html" target="_blank">Upright Canister Stoves, the State of the Art</a></u></b>. A chart of comparative weights is included.</li>
</ul>
<ul>
<li>For a look at integrated canister stoves (Jetboil, Reactor, Windburner, etc.), please see: <b><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/04/integrated-canister-stoves-state-of-art.html" target="_blank">Integrated Canister Stoves, the State of the Art</a></u></b>. A chart of comparative weights is included.</li>
</ul>
<div>
<b><span style="font-size: large;">The Purpose of this Post:</span></b></div>
<div>
As a brief post script, let me just reflect for a moment. I wrote this post with two things in mind:</div>
<div>
1. To let people know, particularly those less familiar with backpacking stoves, what's out there. There are stoves being marketed as "ultralight" that are above three ounces in weight. That's actually on the <i>heavy</i> end of the scale. It's not even light let alone ultralight. If you're shopping for a stove and trying to get your base weight down, you need to know that you can do better.</div>
<div>
2. <i>ALL WEIGHT CATEGORIES ARE ARBITRARY</i> including those that talk about total base weight. I like weight categories insofar as they give me a <i>goal</i> that I can challenge myself with, but I don't like weight categories if they lead to one upmanship or a loss of focus on the true bottom line: enjoyment. Reduced gear weight should facilitate the enjoyment of one's hiking. Increased enjoyment of hiking is the true bottom line, not some arbitrary weight class. </div>
Hikin' Jimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.com7tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-3671361891822820742017-05-11T23:48:00.000-07:002017-05-16T22:13:36.894-07:00The 1.8 L MSR Windburner vs the 1.8 L Jetboil Sumo Recently, I was asked what the weight "penalty" is in carrying the 1.8 L MSR Windburner vs. the 1.8 L Jetboil Sumo. Excellent question. I have both, so I pulled out my scale, and I created the below table of weights.<br />
<br />
For full reviews of the Windburner, please see:<br />
<ul>
<li><b><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2014/11/review-new-msr-windboiler.html" target="_blank">Windburner 1.0 L Review (original and most comprehensive review)</a></u></b></li>
<li><b><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/05/the-msr-windburner-for-two-18-liter-size.html" target="_blank">Windburner 1.8 L Review (most recent review)</a></u></b></li>
</ul>
For a more comprehensive look at Integrated canister stoves, please see:<br />
<ul>
<li><b><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/04/integrated-canister-stoves-state-of-art.html" target="_blank">Integrated Canister Stoves – The State of the Art</a></u></b></li>
</ul>
For a look at the entire realm of Canister Stoves, please see:<br />
<ul>
<li><b><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/04/canister-stoves-compared-compendium-of.html" target="_blank">Canister Stoves Compared – A Compendium of Canister Stoves</a></u></b></li>
</ul>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEge47qIpy2AUHQsXq4NLAHCNGSfPChlfrUGm6wuRC6fuIgA-QlSUx01n7xZrbMX3MbLp97oLRZ8dOBSSlx6XqpUznvuhz9NXnqzkVMMfSufqup1C0hGqlYXp9eNHlxEYYJOg3LWQb_v0L8/s1600/IMG_8322%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEge47qIpy2AUHQsXq4NLAHCNGSfPChlfrUGm6wuRC6fuIgA-QlSUx01n7xZrbMX3MbLp97oLRZ8dOBSSlx6XqpUznvuhz9NXnqzkVMMfSufqup1C0hGqlYXp9eNHlxEYYJOg3LWQb_v0L8/s640/IMG_8322%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">An MSR Windburner warming up.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
Here's what I came up with:<br />
<table border="2" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 275px;">
<colgroup><col style="mso-width-alt: 2669; mso-width-source: userset; width: 60pt;" width="75"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 1682; mso-width-source: userset; width: 40pt;" width="50"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 1938; mso-width-source: userset; width: 42pt;" width="55"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 1682; mso-width-source: userset; width: 35pt;" width="46"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 1938; mso-width-source: userset; width: 40pt;" width="53"></col>
</colgroup><tbody>
<tr height="61" style="height: 45.75pt; mso-height-source: userset;">
<td class="xl65" height="61" style="height: 45.75pt; width: 55pt;" width="73"></td>
<td class="xl66" colspan="2" style="border-left: none; width: 84pt;" width="100">MSR
Windburner 1.8 L</td>
<td class="xl66" colspan="2" style="border-left: none; width: 75pt;" width="99">Jetboil
Sumo 1.8 L</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl63" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;"></td>
<td class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">Grams</td>
<td class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">Ounces</td>
<td class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">Grams</td>
<td class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">Ounces</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl63" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;">Burner</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">200</td>
<td align="right" class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">7.0</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">150</td>
<td align="right" class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">5.3</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl63" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;">Pot</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">227</td>
<td align="right" class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">8.0</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">196</td>
<td align="right" class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">6.9</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl63" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;">Cozy</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">71</td>
<td align="right" class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">2.5</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">53</td>
<td align="right" class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">1.9</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl63" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;">Lid</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">20</td>
<td align="right" class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">0.7</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">24</td>
<td align="right" class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">0.9</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl63" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;">Bowl</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">54</td>
<td align="right" class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">1.9</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">47</td>
<td align="right" class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">1.7</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl63" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;">Stand</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">20</td>
<td align="right" class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">0.7</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">26</td>
<td align="right" class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">0.9</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl63" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;">TOTAL</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">592</td>
<td align="right" class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">20.8</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">496</td>
<td align="right" class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">17.6</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl68" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;">Difference</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"></td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"></td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>96</b></td>
<td align="right" class="xl69" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>3.2</b></td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
Basically, at least on my scale, there's a 3.2 ounce difference when a Windburner is compared to the Jetboil Sumo. OK, not so good.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhfidVaIaCGILkDqm4f1Q_r3Trjv1eGHlYBdKuPAABBTP3Xf7M840WVZGidYgpIeaOxx8veZeqYeIfZg9sQyQ-9whQ449K2U6pdJfszHQVqAzoaiqtQyZXpRMHFsKcgSy_ra_zYA45CRe8/s1600/IMG_8374%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhfidVaIaCGILkDqm4f1Q_r3Trjv1eGHlYBdKuPAABBTP3Xf7M840WVZGidYgpIeaOxx8veZeqYeIfZg9sQyQ-9whQ449K2U6pdJfszHQVqAzoaiqtQyZXpRMHFsKcgSy_ra_zYA45CRe8/s640/IMG_8374%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">A 1.8 L MSR Windburner, left. A 1.8 L Jetboil Sumo, right.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
But there is a trade off here. The gain with the Windburner is wind proofness. Jetboils just aren't very good in wind. Take a good look at the two videos at this link: <b><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2014/11/msr-windboiler-wind-testing.html" target="_blank">Wind Testing – Windburner vs. Jetboil</a></u></b>.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhSlk6tfdvDqDkW4urIEa9pAxjQXW54RribMjR_uvN86qMQD95k1jzAkPppe0bqJgkOUqQFc48zqpUhIC_H5G004ijLLP8E9hKnbSY3sd1Mv36XGLuTSz4ijslCxTnOjuL2Lfa7O_xZhJs/s1600/IMG_8372%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhSlk6tfdvDqDkW4urIEa9pAxjQXW54RribMjR_uvN86qMQD95k1jzAkPppe0bqJgkOUqQFc48zqpUhIC_H5G004ijLLP8E9hKnbSY3sd1Mv36XGLuTSz4ijslCxTnOjuL2Lfa7O_xZhJs/s640/IMG_8372%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">A Jetboil's heat exchanger is completely open to the wind.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
A Windburner will act like nothing is happening in conditions that shut a Jetboil down. Those three ounces get you a stove that will work in conditions in which a Jetboil won't. I <i>always</i> bring a Windburner for desert hiking. It's always freaking windy in the desert. The Windburner works; the Jetboil doesn't; screw the 3.2 ounces. <br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjoj2SNFIzFGC4CbTW4poH1_f9DABO3XTpEsuPw0aIOaNPpc9HkpFoxWLhcxC00r22FZRflLa8HJkR6VHAw8Xv3o5dF8sgD9EbOCagbDwlHe1edVlGhNYhE9A5mf_c6_MO-hTwT5uOihPI/s1600/MSR_Windburner_vs_Jetboil_Sumo_Airflow.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="362" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjoj2SNFIzFGC4CbTW4poH1_f9DABO3XTpEsuPw0aIOaNPpc9HkpFoxWLhcxC00r22FZRflLa8HJkR6VHAw8Xv3o5dF8sgD9EbOCagbDwlHe1edVlGhNYhE9A5mf_c6_MO-hTwT5uOihPI/s640/MSR_Windburner_vs_Jetboil_Sumo_Airflow.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">A Jetboil's heat exchanger is open. Wind can blow in one side and out the other.<br />
A Windburner's heat exchanger is enclosed. Air enters only through the burner and exits only through the vents.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
There are some "side" benefits that you're getting with the Windburner:<br />
<ul>
<li>A functional bowl of about 850 ml vs. a not terribly functional bowl of about 400 ml with the Sumo. The Sumo's bowl has notches cut in the side (so it will clip on to the bottom of the pot). Things spill out through those notches.</li>
<li>A snap tight lid that you can pour with using only one hand.</li>
<li>A handle that actually functions as a handle. A Jetboil's "handle" really isn't.</li>
</ul>
<div>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhJQmDnfuzSsbCMd5Dlrw9piJPqogL98DuVP8Zu9ASCFeXX8PiM5ev1ol-8qoNI8EzPbvLyA5UOT0cCtXdGO4_WcqNKG96Wx5488FE9hTBmkzQALEcCzippa8j3IRdqgkKZu183qeXqS_Q/s1600/IMG_8384%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhJQmDnfuzSsbCMd5Dlrw9piJPqogL98DuVP8Zu9ASCFeXX8PiM5ev1ol-8qoNI8EzPbvLyA5UOT0cCtXdGO4_WcqNKG96Wx5488FE9hTBmkzQALEcCzippa8j3IRdqgkKZu183qeXqS_Q/s640/IMG_8384%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The 1.8 L Windburner has a very useful 850 ml bowl.<br />
You can kind of use the 1.8 L Jetboil's 400 ml pot protector as a bowl, but it's better left at home.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
The above side benefits are all well and fine, but if you don't need the wind proofness, honestly, I think the weight of a Windburner is hard to justify.</div>
<div>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjNoARwnr3i6gr5QljAmvZbuoClBDwzJrIcmLT7fdvGnhMiQBLT-FvFA3o_3CGwdiFLLKYYdPZk7b_K567591ZJ9vnUKTYzmINhYaC4wOe6195y7z1NjRpwUgLeZX6W7-FZ-k6oE34JZy0/s1600/IMG_8381%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjNoARwnr3i6gr5QljAmvZbuoClBDwzJrIcmLT7fdvGnhMiQBLT-FvFA3o_3CGwdiFLLKYYdPZk7b_K567591ZJ9vnUKTYzmINhYaC4wOe6195y7z1NjRpwUgLeZX6W7-FZ-k6oE34JZy0/s640/IMG_8381%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">MSR Windburner radiant burner, left. Jetboil conventional burner, right.<br />
The Windburner's burner is amazingly windproof, but it's heavy.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
When it is windy, the Windburner is your best friend ever. Even in moderate winds where people often will build rock walls or crawl behind some boulders to cook, yeah, those techniques work, but sometimes I'm just beat and don't want to screw with it. A Windburner cooks. Period. No screwing around. Wherever you plop your self down, that's where you cook.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiRAzTeYHp695u19m3_w6snL-ehTn_6eT_KkoHNYqZPoMlYDJnb6In9nT2MgncoGbpnGDixT7V89IPT-gdAQckf86b96sEo7mOmZZFmB38Bn_y29rS23ZTgn3EaUl7gJY7bZ_hGEXCljsw/s1600/IBQH3487%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiRAzTeYHp695u19m3_w6snL-ehTn_6eT_KkoHNYqZPoMlYDJnb6In9nT2MgncoGbpnGDixT7V89IPT-gdAQckf86b96sEo7mOmZZFmB38Bn_y29rS23ZTgn3EaUl7gJY7bZ_hGEXCljsw/s640/IBQH3487%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Cooking after a late arrival in camp.<br />
Sometimes, you just don't want to screw around.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
So, there's a weight and features comparison between the two stoves. I hope you found the post useful.</div>
<div>
<br /></div>
<div>
HJ<br />
<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgzQJAb0kgUJ3cP0_k97S5tXhjfu8zbIHx16Zdmk-pBE6K7mvoynEJhrmc2H7m7-QFEOeyIPv5kmK4728bToHPHUl1IJ-hL6F8271jIdiMGjD7lT6UD_j-QHnNo2joTg7XgMiFoOfQiFdw/s1600/UGHU0667%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgzQJAb0kgUJ3cP0_k97S5tXhjfu8zbIHx16Zdmk-pBE6K7mvoynEJhrmc2H7m7-QFEOeyIPv5kmK4728bToHPHUl1IJ-hL6F8271jIdiMGjD7lT6UD_j-QHnNo2joTg7XgMiFoOfQiFdw/s640/UGHU0667%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The MSR Windburner in a desert wash.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
<br /></div>
Hikin' Jimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.com19tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-26074436360411347282017-05-07T20:45:00.001-07:002017-05-12T10:50:25.954-07:00The MSR Windburner – New 1.8 Liter SizeThe MSR Windburner is basically your best friend in really windy conditions. Hungry? Windburner. Done.<br />
<br />
Recently, I pulled into camp late, exhausted. I didn't want to screw around with building a rock wall or crawling behind some boulders to cook. With the Windburner, it basically doesn't matter. There's no screwing around with trying to get your stove to work in wind. It just works. Boy, was I glad I had brought a Windburner that trip.<br />
<br />
UPDATE 12 May 2017: I have now created a <b><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/05/the-18-l-msr-windburner-vs-18-l-jetboil.html" target="_blank">Comparison of the 1.8 L MSR Windburner with the 1.8 L Jetboil Sumo</a></u></b>.<br />
<br />
For a more comprehensive look at Integrated canister stoves, please see:<br />
<ul>
<li><b><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/04/integrated-canister-stoves-state-of-art.html" target="_blank">Integrated Canister Stoves – The State of the Art</a></u></b></li>
</ul>
For a look at the entire realm of Canister Stoves, please see:<br />
<ul>
<li><b><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/04/canister-stoves-compared-compendium-of.html" target="_blank">Canister Stoves Compared – A Compendium of Canister Stoves</a></u></b></li>
</ul>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjVFeOVXoal9J6qw9TW4-gg2K_CssLktrtGobyFo_mJxs87ec_-vhbahyfJw0NxJEZuq3RSSZRbOy2Wbc5nf8CLWm8LQhGFvpnHeT_gTE2bZitl-N4t7D1y87dgkEHiaC_drmEc0_qjSW0/s1600/VDXJ5753%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjVFeOVXoal9J6qw9TW4-gg2K_CssLktrtGobyFo_mJxs87ec_-vhbahyfJw0NxJEZuq3RSSZRbOy2Wbc5nf8CLWm8LQhGFvpnHeT_gTE2bZitl-N4t7D1y87dgkEHiaC_drmEc0_qjSW0/s640/VDXJ5753%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The MSR Windburner with 1.8 L pot.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
I think many people look at the Windburner as only a "personal" cooking system (i.e. for just one person), which it is – in its original form. But no more. <br />
<br />
When I wrote my <b><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2014/11/review-new-msr-windboiler.html" target="_blank">initial review of the MSR Windburner</a></u></b>, that's all that was available, a "personal" system with a one liter pot. Yes, the Windburner is fast enough that you could just take turns, but if you had a meal that required a bit more capacity or you wanted to eat together, the Windburner, back then, really wasn't your set up. Then MSR introduced their new 1.8 liter pot for the Windburner.<br />
<b>NOTE</b>: The burner is the same size for all versions of the Windburner. All Windburner pots and pans fit with all Windburner burners. The 1.8 L pot will, for example, work with the burner from a 1.0 L set. Likewise the pan will fit the burner from either a 1.8 L set or a 1.0 L set.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgbp_6U5uF-P0nSvh2WD541gKv-3eqqYB_4FnDoLcb15_ZE1gpU5Lo9x3vrWas8sz2vSrIDS_LjcstOyPBN_gUBCE-CYZubE1Xe5rvjm4mSmk1lOEVD7OeE0d55h5w1teKTvEzqUflr0js/s1600/UGGN7013%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgbp_6U5uF-P0nSvh2WD541gKv-3eqqYB_4FnDoLcb15_ZE1gpU5Lo9x3vrWas8sz2vSrIDS_LjcstOyPBN_gUBCE-CYZubE1Xe5rvjm4mSmk1lOEVD7OeE0d55h5w1teKTvEzqUflr0js/s640/UGGN7013%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The 1.8 L pot for the MSR Windburner</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
Now, I could just make this a slam-dunk review. I mean, the 1.0 L size is a really great stove, so I could just say "same stove, bigger size, works great, the end," and be done with it, but I thought I'd say just a bit more – and there are a few changes as well that I thought I'd point out.<br />
<br />
The bulk of the system <i>is</i> in fact the same, so by all means you should read my original review: <b><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2014/11/review-new-msr-windboiler.html" target="_blank">The New MSR Windburner</a></u></b>.<br />
<br />
Let me just say here that since the publication of my original review just over three years ago, the Windburner has become my absolute favorite desert backpacking stove. Why? Because it's always freaking windy in the desert. Really windy. And, no, sticking it behind a rock just doesn't cut it in high gusty winds.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhaclolGMeuVI9kWEoo07Puf_CLvk_DrttUAdiuP2wfDlS4Ug_Q9GOKpsOkzUsv7Qeu_IuJ8Xxbd7IuCeM4eywaUnqYgii1pvGUXhVOTgJl9Mi23OipHNFiEopgTltNhY3Qzac1sq_cdII/s1600/ETWS5476%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhaclolGMeuVI9kWEoo07Puf_CLvk_DrttUAdiuP2wfDlS4Ug_Q9GOKpsOkzUsv7Qeu_IuJ8Xxbd7IuCeM4eywaUnqYgii1pvGUXhVOTgJl9Mi23OipHNFiEopgTltNhY3Qzac1sq_cdII/s640/ETWS5476%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The Whitewater River flowing into the California desert from the San Bernardino Mountains</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
When the desert winds come wailing down those desert canyons, there's no better stove than the MSR Windburner (well, maybe the MSR Reactor, but that's the same technology). Trip after trip, the Windburner has earned my trust and confidence. Whether desert canyons, open plains, or windswept ridges, this is the stove to have if you're going out into windy conditions. If you're interested in my real world testing of the Windburner, please see my latest trip report:<br />
<u><b><a href="http://hikinjim.blogspot.com/2017/05/the-road-to-hell-is-paved-with-weather.html" target="_blank">The Road to Hell is Paved with... Weather Balloons?</a></b></u><br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Canister Stand</span></b><br />
One of the things that's different here are the new, and I think improved, canister stand (sometimes also called a "canister legs" or "canister feet").<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgcw5c3vkcTG_jZtnUD5A4KLFAHUn5CJuUqpXnaWWBXvMgJtlpOXSrfT79nBxhAAzlq6C1d6GThRQDGdBZir4i7SdiOZGdSXcQCGasIluW5UQcpXiBwUDdpm_a0qZD8SExyOh5D8vne_Xo/s1600/NNDY7263%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgcw5c3vkcTG_jZtnUD5A4KLFAHUn5CJuUqpXnaWWBXvMgJtlpOXSrfT79nBxhAAzlq6C1d6GThRQDGdBZir4i7SdiOZGdSXcQCGasIluW5UQcpXiBwUDdpm_a0qZD8SExyOh5D8vne_Xo/s640/NNDY7263%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The new 1.8 L version of the Windburner comes with improved canister legs.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
There were some complaints that the original canister stand that came with the Windburner took too much room and was too fragile. MSR quickly put out an improved version 2. This current version is the third version that I'm aware of, and it's a good one as far as I'm concerned.<br />
<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgr5yHR43vA6ODR-oV43K6qWgYeLp7dIx08RkxgksNbA0OU1p_A271xe-219AMe5N0EL7ypt2LjGChejfPTkcc_zBZjV-Cdy3JuMsyn1FFiHX10HD7tcRtTdSzLw1VRj49qKmk_JAUSAzA/s1600/CAWE2515%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgr5yHR43vA6ODR-oV43K6qWgYeLp7dIx08RkxgksNbA0OU1p_A271xe-219AMe5N0EL7ypt2LjGChejfPTkcc_zBZjV-Cdy3JuMsyn1FFiHX10HD7tcRtTdSzLw1VRj49qKmk_JAUSAzA/s640/CAWE2515%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The new Windburner canister stand <i>folds</i></td></tr>
</tbody></table>
What's new and improved? It stretchy and it <i>folds</i>. There's nothing brittle or fragile about it. You can easily find a place to pack it inside the capacious 1.8 L pot.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjDKl9Rl69j3heZHpG2ZBLARv6GlQlnJH9e11fZSjD1J7Lfz7THifVeuKJwQBly0j-moWCj6nZJ6LdhR4CpSohsTnipOknXB4VNxGTXK4HVmZjNpde8uIOQYY6a1bU3NnxlTeH_kIeUdbY/s1600/UJVT8024%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjDKl9Rl69j3heZHpG2ZBLARv6GlQlnJH9e11fZSjD1J7Lfz7THifVeuKJwQBly0j-moWCj6nZJ6LdhR4CpSohsTnipOknXB4VNxGTXK4HVmZjNpde8uIOQYY6a1bU3NnxlTeH_kIeUdbY/s640/UJVT8024%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">There's plenty of room inside the 1.8 L pot for a spoon, lighter, and the canister stand.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
The new canister stand fits <i>any </i>size of canister. One never knows what you may find in a small town. All that may be available is some other brand of canister, a canister that does <i>not</i> have the same diameter as an MSR canister. Coleman 220 g canisters for example are a little bit bigger than MSR 227 g canisters. Likewise, the old Primus 220 g canisters are a little smaller than MSR 227 g canisters. If you've only got two settings on your canister stand (the width of an MSR 110 g or 227 g sized canister), good luck with other brands, especially if you're traveling in Asia where who knows what you'll find. The new Windburner canister stand stretches and will fit just about any canister diameter from about 8 cm to about 12 cm.<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-size: large;">What Fits Inside?</span></b><br />
<br />
First, I wrap everything in a bandana, see above, so that I don't scratch up the pot. With that in mind, the following will fit:<br />
<ul>
<li>A 110 g sized canister fits easily with room to spare the burner, the 110 g canister, a spoon, the canister stand, and a large windproof torch type lighter.</li>
<li>A 227 g sized canister fits the burner, the 227 g canister, the canister stand, and a small lighter. The canister stand is a bit of a trick, but if you fiddle with it a bit, it all fits. I couldn't fit my particular spoon into the pot with the 227 g canister, but different spoons may fit.</li>
<li>A 450 g sized canister will fit, but not much else will fit. You can<i>not</i> fit in the burner if you put a 450 g sized canister inside. The canister stand and a lighter will fit even with a 450 g size canister. <b>NOTE: </b>MSR does not recommend the 450 g size for use with the Windburner since the resultant assembly would be so tall.</li>
</ul>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEigulIV6M3bP6FpC3MNH0cx41eHQ8e3Vp7juAAZYLy8uTYg4ferhR0xtmVsaL1Jo4cCtLUY2iQCVo46JDhOaeg8i6alHNepsKfU3PpUQJNGsbB9SdqmtNtFJ4L1gkAwuFw6EP8lC2QNVEA/s1600/TMER7859%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEigulIV6M3bP6FpC3MNH0cx41eHQ8e3Vp7juAAZYLy8uTYg4ferhR0xtmVsaL1Jo4cCtLUY2iQCVo46JDhOaeg8i6alHNepsKfU3PpUQJNGsbB9SdqmtNtFJ4L1gkAwuFw6EP8lC2QNVEA/s640/TMER7859%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The pot is fairly deep, so a 8.5"/21 cm spoon is a good fit.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<div>
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Recommended Utensils</span></b></div>
<div>
The 1.8 L pot is about 7 inches/17.5 cm deep. I think a spoon (or other untensil) of about 8.5 inches/21.5 cm is about right. In order to fit your spoon in the pot, you'll want a collapsing or folding spoon. I recommend plastic so that you don't scratch up the nice anodized pot. </div>
<div>
<br /></div>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEga3b0hs7mYzvvrYOnlapFf6LFwbB0u2VULIHir7nHnhAhG_J1lMl_hEgZydoY0qeOn9vRXxFIOdkdlscKeTkSBPsv7oNdZ7YPF4Gt9jH6yZOFo7Uzr4k3E_u-mcAxaFqN4PO0-ByZw76E/s1600/IMG_7632%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEga3b0hs7mYzvvrYOnlapFf6LFwbB0u2VULIHir7nHnhAhG_J1lMl_hEgZydoY0qeOn9vRXxFIOdkdlscKeTkSBPsv7oNdZ7YPF4Gt9jH6yZOFo7Uzr4k3E_u-mcAxaFqN4PO0-ByZw76E/s640/IMG_7632%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The 1.8 L Windburner's bowl is a <i>very</i> functional 850 ml size.<br />
The pot lid snaps to the bowl in addition to the pot.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">The Bowl</span></b><br />
The bowl has a nice improvement over the original: It doesn't get jammed onto the pot. On the original, sometimes the bowl would ride up too far on the pot, and it was all you could do to get it off again. MSR, thankfully, has corrected the problem, and the bowl pops on and off the pot easily.<br />
<br />
As with the original, the pot lid fits the bowl equally well as it fits the pot. The bowl is a full 850 ml (about 29 fluid ounces) in size, which is great for mixing things in – or eating out of. The bowl is well marked with volume increments.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEitcTieS5dsPTf2RHtTIdXg5NWWZAuRGueGGzROHRfA6-Gr0HHnvR61CZhbr80I0UgATZY1NU5AZ9Xv-NVATs4qIn-xmSmE7lFHuLy0ei-ijmvyEvpJTkqufDb6jrJA6mMhR798MdgKHj8/s1600/YDUQ8026%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEitcTieS5dsPTf2RHtTIdXg5NWWZAuRGueGGzROHRfA6-Gr0HHnvR61CZhbr80I0UgATZY1NU5AZ9Xv-NVATs4qIn-xmSmE7lFHuLy0ei-ijmvyEvpJTkqufDb6jrJA6mMhR798MdgKHj8/s640/YDUQ8026%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The bowl has English units up through 24 oz/3 cups or metric units to 600 ml</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
For travel with two, one person can eat out of the bowl and the other out of the pot. No measuring cup is needed since both the bowl and the pot have volumetric markings.<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Functional Pot Size</span></b><br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhD4d_lG8Qh5GkuT03oXYvnYRvlyBj9UyN-MYoWw3GK5o5JJlCZCbOJ9iDJZXONLjBwkZcycQo_PWvWVnmLuj00KUIlQQ-6MhP63D1FM0J84jcLPLOdw_YtLctozPX78tEvvsNGUheLf3w/s1600/IMG_7643%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhD4d_lG8Qh5GkuT03oXYvnYRvlyBj9UyN-MYoWw3GK5o5JJlCZCbOJ9iDJZXONLjBwkZcycQo_PWvWVnmLuj00KUIlQQ-6MhP63D1FM0J84jcLPLOdw_YtLctozPX78tEvvsNGUheLf3w/s640/IMG_7643%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The pot has volume markings up to 44 oz and 1.4 L. <br />
Maximum recommended fill is 1.0 L.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
Maximum recommended fill is 1.0 liter for safety, however, I think that if a person were careful and the pot were on firm ground, 1.5 liters would be practical. There's a lot of power in this stove, and a boil over is a real possibility. Your best bet is to keep the stove on a relatively low setting if you're going to put more in it than the recommended maximum amount. <b>DO NOT</b> let the stove boil over. If the stove boils over, 212 Fahrenheit/100 C water will be spilling onto the canister beneath. What's the maximum temperature specification of the canister per the EN 417 standard? 50 Celsius (122 Fahrenheit). Boiling water is twice as hot as the specification. That could get ugly. Do <i>not</i> let the stove boil over.<br />
<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgpj6RVZYa63KiQiOVsYzPZG_qVDMjBn8xn7_poelQ11eabSqt-JOvT3WdbEUQPmO9Nfemmc3JWYCNJdQt1pYK-vGPHVtdjzdBdD8aQ2BsLsgGAd0o5XjENqEcomVPiT9h_NvM4tqKt0mE/s1600/PSAH8205%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgpj6RVZYa63KiQiOVsYzPZG_qVDMjBn8xn7_poelQ11eabSqt-JOvT3WdbEUQPmO9Nfemmc3JWYCNJdQt1pYK-vGPHVtdjzdBdD8aQ2BsLsgGAd0o5XjENqEcomVPiT9h_NvM4tqKt0mE/s640/PSAH8205%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The vents on the Windburner are on three sides of the pot.<br />
Turn the side <i>without</i> the vents into the wind.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Wind Tips and Tricks</span></b><br />
I haven't seen this documented anywhere on MSR's site, but I always turn the portion of the pot <i>without</i> vents into the wind. This gives the best results in my experience. <br />
<br />
Sometimes getting the stove lit can be a bit of a trick in high winds. Regular matches and regular lighters don't work very well. Personally, I like using a torch style lighter like the <b><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2011/12/soto-pocket-torch.html" target="_blank">Soto Pocket Torch</a></u></b>. Note however <i>any</i> lighter with a piezoelectric ignition will become unreliable somewhere around elevations of 8000'/2400m or higher. Fire steels also work well in windy conditions and are not affected by elevation.<br />
<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg_zccxpjpApF4OrPhMDLIT2OluB25L2O5T6MmT2Gz6NMQUUrtcPEwrGLHUu3FnNr-a5lUrSlJv_hG0siFaxL_SOt9f4Bn-CYR_83-HUhO4xAArnA3_gvMmfgEdXVLhr3NzXvzq0JdYKI8/s1600/IMG_7672%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg_zccxpjpApF4OrPhMDLIT2OluB25L2O5T6MmT2Gz6NMQUUrtcPEwrGLHUu3FnNr-a5lUrSlJv_hG0siFaxL_SOt9f4Bn-CYR_83-HUhO4xAArnA3_gvMmfgEdXVLhr3NzXvzq0JdYKI8/s640/IMG_7672%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">In addition to the new 1.8 L pot (seen at left in blue), MSR has also introduced a Windburner skillet.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<b><span style="font-size: large;">What Else Is New?</span></b><br />
MSR has also introduced a hard anodized frying pan/skillet for use with the Windburner. In my testing, I found the skillet to be a very capable cooking implement.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh-mFE3eHoIL3TNbP0fEgnld1Z4q3VdqjeZrERWaUr5vpE_5AGkKMi0Yumww38ye7XiMUx70tMCm3vmkEL-n_wonunxAMA0TsT1cVtJBTGKgrMVMshWYKUQLALzNtayiikMaPO8nXIqVx4/s1600/IMG_7682%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh-mFE3eHoIL3TNbP0fEgnld1Z4q3VdqjeZrERWaUr5vpE_5AGkKMi0Yumww38ye7XiMUx70tMCm3vmkEL-n_wonunxAMA0TsT1cVtJBTGKgrMVMshWYKUQLALzNtayiikMaPO8nXIqVx4/s640/IMG_7682%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">A very nice, moist omelette prepared in a Windburner skillet.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Problems</span></b><br />
There is one minor problem with the 1.8 L MSR Windburner pot, and I'm a little disappointed here. This same problem existed in the original version of the Windburner, and I really would have expected MSR to have corrected this by now. The problem is simply this: MSR hasn't really figured out a good way to secure the pot cozy in place. Why does that matter? Well, if the pot cozy slides up, as it sometimes does, then the lid will not seal fully. You'll get a little dribble under the pour spot which will go down inside the cozy. <br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhvzkVmE8Vhij-wqSMRFLN1uzhbsD0IzoFcsVvxekcqvCzNJbWGAAxH3uDErD_SuQKU_DAVNzc0ArUUibNVYWdE8TwWT90pMkzDfQKWWOqILTvDx1kvXpYAj6mCpLLdiPUx2IIm83o3frE/s1600/BGAQ1405%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhvzkVmE8Vhij-wqSMRFLN1uzhbsD0IzoFcsVvxekcqvCzNJbWGAAxH3uDErD_SuQKU_DAVNzc0ArUUibNVYWdE8TwWT90pMkzDfQKWWOqILTvDx1kvXpYAj6mCpLLdiPUx2IIm83o3frE/s640/BGAQ1405%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Using the pour spout on the the lid of the MSR Windburner.<br />
Nice feature, but you have to make sure the pot cozy is moved down a few mm or it won't seal.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
A little dribble isn't too big of a problem if you're just using water, but soups etc can be a big mess if they go down inside the honey comb plastic under the surface of the cozy. <br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEicTXuFbqiAxsg7LXqwXXUSitU1yqoJD-jsnOfEq-YBYcFtWwKYCXO-9kQOt_yPw-oTimQLe4QaaWEyYUOj4YPcFjiDvBKtBaHywjh-IQE6wGZ5Hd2v7HvGiFNAnmKMz0a37j4IJGrKLnc/s1600/KCWH5437%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEicTXuFbqiAxsg7LXqwXXUSitU1yqoJD-jsnOfEq-YBYcFtWwKYCXO-9kQOt_yPw-oTimQLe4QaaWEyYUOj4YPcFjiDvBKtBaHywjh-IQE6wGZ5Hd2v7HvGiFNAnmKMz0a37j4IJGrKLnc/s640/KCWH5437%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">You don't want food spills to go down inside the plastic honeycomb of the pot cozy.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
The "fix" is fairly simple: Just manually slide down the cozy a couple of mm and then seal the pot lid. This isn't too big of a deal, but you do have to remember to do it. My preference would be for MSR to have corrected the issue. The pot cozy should, in my opinion, be designed such that it just can't slide up past a certain point and cause a leak, no matter how minor that leak may be.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh6OxfgB0MRFqeSy9dUIDhE900XLM2bbj4T5q-kF2puQO7-Pw5A0ObGccAtDiQR8RcInogbjGo5MZSjB28KDYnL1quwFDIYLQ1gdObGaI2rehLgwg0-XwLCCiwSH_Z0msHNheU2HoehL5Y/s1600/HGGO9987%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh6OxfgB0MRFqeSy9dUIDhE900XLM2bbj4T5q-kF2puQO7-Pw5A0ObGccAtDiQR8RcInogbjGo5MZSjB28KDYnL1quwFDIYLQ1gdObGaI2rehLgwg0-XwLCCiwSH_Z0msHNheU2HoehL5Y/s640/HGGO9987%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Slide the pot cozy down a couple of mm in order to get the lid to seal properly.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
The MSR Windburner is such a nice, well-thought out system that it's a shame to have this one minor flaw, and, yes, in the greater scheme of things, this is a pretty nit-picky complaint. Hey, I'm a stove nerd; what can I say? :) Overall, it's a great system. This little flaw certainly doesn't keep it out of my pack.<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Summary </span></b><span style="font-size: large;"><b>– The MSR Windburner, 1.8 L Size</b></span><br />
<br />
<i>What's Good About It?</i><br />
<ul>
<li>Utterly bombproof in wind</li>
<li>Good fuel efficiency <i>and</i> good speed</li>
<li>Nice bowl (with volume markings)</li>
<li>Nice pot capacity for two (and can accommodate spoon, lighter, etc.)</li>
<li>Robust and durable</li>
<li>Good heat control (It can do a lot more than just boil water)</li>
<li><i>Twelve</i> attachment openings (so that it doesn't matter which way you turn the pot)</li>
<li>A handle that actually works</li>
</ul>
<br />
<i>What's Not So Good About It?</i><br />
<ul>
<li>If the pot cozy slides up, the lid may not seal properly for pouring.</li>
<li>It would be nice if they could make it an ounce or two lighter. Note that the Windburner is about the same as other stoves in this class; this is just a "wish list" kind of a thing.</li>
</ul>
<b>The MSR Windburner, 1.8 L Size: Highly Recommended</b><br />
<br />
Please see also all weights and technical data in Appendices I and II, below.<br />
<br />
Thanks for joining me on another Adventure In Stoving,<br />
<br />
HJ<br />
<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Appendix I – Component Weights</span></b><br />
<br />
Windburner stove system with 1.8 L pot<br />
<table border="2" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 149px;">
<colgroup><col style="mso-width-alt: 1792; mso-width-source: userset; width: 37pt;" width="49"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 1718; mso-width-source: userset; width: 35pt;" width="47"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 1938; mso-width-source: userset; width: 40pt;" width="53"></col>
</colgroup><tbody>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="20" style="height: 15.0pt; width: 37pt;" width="49"><b>Item</b></td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; width: 35pt;" width="47"><b>Grams</b></td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; width: 40pt;" width="53"><b>Ounces</b></td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;">Burner</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">200</td>
<td align="right" class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">7.0</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;">Pot</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">227</td>
<td align="right" class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">8.0</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;">Cozy</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">71</td>
<td align="right" class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">2.5</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;">Lid</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">20</td>
<td align="right" class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">0.7</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;">Bowl</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">54</td>
<td align="right" class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">1.9</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;">Stand</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">20</td>
<td align="right" class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">0.7</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;"><b>TOTAL</b></td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">592</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">20.8</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
Manufacturer's stated weight is 19.25 oz whereas my measured weight is 20.8 oz, about a 1.5 oz difference. They may not be including the canister stand in their weight or perhaps the bowl. My weights include <i>everything </i>that comes with the set.<br />
<br />
Windburner skillet<br />
<table border="2" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 149px;">
<colgroup><col style="mso-width-alt: 1792; mso-width-source: userset; width: 37pt;" width="49"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 1718; mso-width-source: userset; width: 35pt;" width="47"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 1938; mso-width-source: userset; width: 40pt;" width="53"></col>
</colgroup><tbody>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl67" height="20" style="height: 15.0pt; width: 37pt;" width="49"><b>Item</b></td>
<td class="xl67" style="border-left: none; width: 35pt;" width="47"><b>Grams</b></td>
<td class="xl67" style="border-left: none; width: 40pt;" width="53"><b>Ounces</b></td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl67" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;">Pan</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">234</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">8.3</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
Note: All weight were measured in grams. There may be minor inconsistencies in weights stated in ounces due to rounding or cumulative errors.<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Appendix II – Manufacturer and Technical Data</span></b><br />
<br />
Date Available: January 2016. Currently available as of this writing<br />
Manufacturer: Mountain Safety Research (MSR), a subsidiary of Cascade Designs.<br />
Manufacturer's Website: <b><u><a href="http://www.cascadedesigns.com/MSR">http://www.cascadedesigns.com/MSR</a></u></b><br />
MSRP: $160 for the Windburner system with 1.8 L pot. $140 for the Windburner system with 1.0 L pot. $90 for just the 1.8 L pot. $70 for just the skillet. <br />
Weight (measured): See Appendix I<br />
Materials: Aluminum pot. Plastic and nylon cozy. Polypropylene bowl and lid. Burner is primarily steel with brass threads. The regulator valve assembly is brass. The burner grip is plastic.<br />
Packed dimensions: 8" x 5" (20.5 cm x 12.5 cm).<br />
Size/Model tested: 1.8 L pot.<br />
Colors available: Blue or black.<br />
Requirements: A standard threaded canister of gas, sold separately.<br />
Warranty Information: Contact Cascade Designs through their website (see above).<br />
<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh8XQdvb-zI03dVpYYCkYPpjkPpoP_5vRVW422zha_YbVULWcD1x5yLyJPYVYWp5o5tkuYhcq3vuzj58D0HsiNU6-0IQ6WsLWRF5xyVcugp6sn6QUiB-qYpXWkKx1NqpcqDw3DV26BBWZA/s1600/IMG_8310%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh8XQdvb-zI03dVpYYCkYPpjkPpoP_5vRVW422zha_YbVULWcD1x5yLyJPYVYWp5o5tkuYhcq3vuzj58D0HsiNU6-0IQ6WsLWRF5xyVcugp6sn6QUiB-qYpXWkKx1NqpcqDw3DV26BBWZA/s640/IMG_8310%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The author, climbing a wind-swept desert ridge near Desert Hot Springs, California.<br />
The MSR Windburner is the ultimate desert cooking machine.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
<br />Hikin' Jimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.com8tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-80007169368688599862017-04-24T23:50:00.000-07:002017-04-25T14:38:45.992-07:00Canister Stoves, Compared – A Compendium of Canister StovesCanister gas stoves are the most popular type of stove for backpackers today, but what type makes sense for what use? It's not always clear what the advantages of say a Jetboil are compared to say a Pocket Rocket. Why are some canister stoves better in cold weather than others? Let's see if we can get a high level view and make sense of the world of canister gas stoves.
<br />
<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEifwQor07x_yUwBTD_kXmw2MONhRq48fYfVNQtr0vqvW8SZqdWymxPVEnnJL1xrzVhdVPeGmRsOQPNsHQ3YyMlezrdyj2wPVSaUI1h7FiX6ukRWCKg2c8NEbxI4zRwsBZWdkf8pKcVJ4Uo/s1600/IMG_5835.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEifwQor07x_yUwBTD_kXmw2MONhRq48fYfVNQtr0vqvW8SZqdWymxPVEnnJL1xrzVhdVPeGmRsOQPNsHQ3YyMlezrdyj2wPVSaUI1h7FiX6ukRWCKg2c8NEbxI4zRwsBZWdkf8pKcVJ4Uo/s640/IMG_5835.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Canister gas stoves. <br />
A <u><b><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2016/12/review-soto-amicus.html" target="_blank">Soto Amicus</a></b></u>, left, and an <b><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2016/12/review-new-msr-pocket-rocket-2.html" target="_blank">MSR Pocket Rocket 2</a></u></b>, right.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Types of Canister Stoves</span></b><br />
Three are three general classes of canister stoves. I'll say a little in brief here and then break things down in detail further on.<br />
<br />
The types are:<br />
<ul>
<li><b>Upright (top mounted) canister stoves</b>. These are the type of canister stoves that screw directly onto the canister. The stoves in the photo above are upright canister stoves. Generally these are the most compact, lightest, and least expensive. On the downside, they tend to be more vulnerable to wind and pot stability on some is limited.</li>
<li><b>Integrated canister stoves</b>. Think Jetboil. This type of stove is sold as a set and includes a pot and stove that are designed to work together. They may also include some type of cup or bowl. Often the pot on this type of stove will have a heat exchanger for improved efficiency (fuel economy). This tends to be the most expensive type of canister stove, but you do get complete set and don't have to buy a separate pot.</li>
<li><b>Remote canister stoves</b>. This type of canister stove consists of a burner that is connected to the fuel via a hose. This type of stove can be used with a full 360 degree windscreen without the danger of overheating the canister, has good pot stability, and, on certain models, can be run with the canister upside down (inverted) for greatly improved cold weather operation. On the down side, remote canister stoves are typically more expensive, heavier, and bulkier than upright canister stoves. However, remote canister stoves are typically less expensive than integrated canister stoves.</li>
</ul>
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Upright (Top Mounted) Canister Stoves</span></b><br />
I recently wrote up a sort of "survey" of what's out there in terms of the typical upright canister gas stove. The survey is in order by weight, lightest to heaviest, and lists a lot of facts like MSRP, weight, and BTU's/hr as well as my personal remarks. See: <br />
<i><b><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/03/upright-canister-stoves-state-of-art.html" target="_blank">Upright Canister Stoves – the State of the Art</a></u></b>.</i><br />
<br />
Of the stoves that have come out in the last year or so, my two personal favorites are shown above, the <u><b><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2016/12/review-soto-amicus.html" target="_blank">Soto Amicus</a></b></u> and the <b><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2016/12/review-new-msr-pocket-rocket-2.html" target="_blank">MSR Pocket Rocket 2</a></u></b>. If you have any interest in either of those two stoves, I have an article that compares them: <b><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/01/the-msr-pocket-rocket-2-vs-soto-amicus.html" target="_blank">The MSR Pocket Rocket 2 vs. the Soto Amicus</a></u></b>.
<br />
<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhWUc2UbgVr31t0fSvbuPFYdSuiORoPdu-_c1fN3WsdEP4czvHgCxFJGG9u2P7y0hFtIOj1OugAmkPZ-ksUskCUiPgwKQ5qUaQg6VfaeVmONB0lrgNFCJexWpfwG8U7Yp1paN-d60rrLEs/s1600/IMG_2405%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhWUc2UbgVr31t0fSvbuPFYdSuiORoPdu-_c1fN3WsdEP4czvHgCxFJGG9u2P7y0hFtIOj1OugAmkPZ-ksUskCUiPgwKQ5qUaQg6VfaeVmONB0lrgNFCJexWpfwG8U7Yp1paN-d60rrLEs/s640/IMG_2405%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The Soto WindMaster operating in the Sierra Nevada on a PCT/JMT section hike.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
This isn't exactly a new stove, but another one of my favorites is a stove that came out several years ago, <b><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2016/11/the-soto-windmaster-worlds-lightest-gas.html" target="_blank">the Soto WindMaster</a></u></b>, which is the world's lightest stove with piezoelectric ignition.<br />
<br />
One note on upright canister stoves: You should not use a full 360 degree windscreen on them. If you fully enclose the canister and burner, you can overheat the canister. That might be, uh, bad. Explosion, flying shrapnel, you know, bad. Don't do that. Upright canister stoves do need to be protected from wind, but you need to be safe. Please see: <b><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2013/04/canister-stoves-and-wind.html" target="_blank">Canister Stoves and Wind</a></u></b>.<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Integrated Canister Stoves</span></b><br />
Some people of course are going to want something "more" than an upright canister stove, something like, say, a Jetboil. This class of stoves is typically referred to as an "integrated" canister stove. They're a little heavier, but they really save fuel and they're oh-so-convenient. <br />
<br />
I've got a survey article on this type of stove:<br />
<i><b><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/04/integrated-canister-stoves-state-of-art.html" target="_blank">Integrated Canister Stoves – The State of the Art</a></u></b>.</i><br />
<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiBvpkI-UCbsm2ppfaWAfO7u0hIZWRYVUs4SZxRkWXoBU7Z7G08ZebRIR6vSb8PV2sy8CalhC7K-TUS8COZRMvWaDLFGZZdrm0SaM3toC4GLNFTjAIWmK-Ech-kBJyfWmmP-giGML7Pjko/s1600/IMG_7511.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiBvpkI-UCbsm2ppfaWAfO7u0hIZWRYVUs4SZxRkWXoBU7Z7G08ZebRIR6vSb8PV2sy8CalhC7K-TUS8COZRMvWaDLFGZZdrm0SaM3toC4GLNFTjAIWmK-Ech-kBJyfWmmP-giGML7Pjko/s640/IMG_7511.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">A <u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/04/review-primus-eta-express-stove-system.html" target="_blank">Primus Eta Express stove system</a></u> is one example of an integrated canister stove.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
One review I completed recently is for the <u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/04/review-primus-eta-express-stove-system.html" target="_blank"><b>Primus Eta Express stove system</b></a></u> (see photo above).<br />
<br />
Another popular integrated canister stove – a stove that is utterly "bomb proof" in wind – is the <u><b><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2014/11/review-new-msr-windboiler.html" target="_blank">MSR WindBurner</a></b></u> (see photo below).<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: x-small;">Note: The Windburner was originally named the Windboiler. If you see or hear "Windboiler" instead of "Windburner" in my blog or in my videos, don't freak out. They are one and the same stove.</span><br />
<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5QZNi2KcaN4/VFXTrPp_jkI/AAAAAAAA5Ig/jubp64h2gdQVsONO7JWFwHYej_H0sU9YQCPcB/s1600/DSC00012.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="358" src="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5QZNi2KcaN4/VFXTrPp_jkI/AAAAAAAA5Ig/jubp64h2gdQVsONO7JWFwHYej_H0sU9YQCPcB/s640/DSC00012.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The MSR Windburner</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
And of course there's always the Jetboil line of stoves. I wrote a <u><a href="http://seattlebackpackersmagazine.com/review-the-new-jetboil-sol/" target="_blank"><b>review of the Jetboil Sol</b></a></u> which was featured in Seattle Backpacker's Magazine. This review should give you some idea of the general features of a Jetboil even if you're considering other Jetboil models (Zip, Flash, Flash Lite, MiniMo, MicroMo, etc.).<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Remote Canister Stoves</span></b><br />
There are several reasons you might want to go with a remote canister stove.<br />
1. <b>Stability</b>. They're generally lower to the ground and wider. They're typically better for bigger pots as in group cooking. Families with small children, Scouts, etc. may in particular value the improved pot stability of this type of stove.<br />
2. <b>Wind resistance</b>. With an upright canister stove where the fuel is directly under the burner, if you put a windscreen around the stove, you also put a windscreen around the fuel. Overheat a canister, and Boom! You can kiss your dinner and possibly a whole lot more goodbye. With a remote canister stove, the fuel is off to one side, connected by a hose. A windscreen <i>separates</i> the fuel from the flame. In other words, a windscreen actually makes a remote canister stove <i>safer</i> (the opposite of an upright canister stove).<br />
3. <b>Cold weather operation.</b> If a given remote canister stove has a way to vaporize the fuel <i>before</i> the fuel reaches the burner head, then the stove can be run with the canister upside down (inverted). Hunh? Who cares? Well, you do if you're out in cold weather. If you're headed out into cold weather, a remote canister stove capable of inverted operation will handle the cold weather better than <i>any</i> other canister stove. This is a bit complicated, so I've written a separate article on it. Please see: <b><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2016/12/gas-stoves-in-cold-weather-regulator.html" target="_blank">Gas Stoves in Cold Weather – Regulator Valves and Inverted Canisters</a></u></b>.<br />
<br />
I don't have a survey article (yet) on remote canister stoves, but below are some links to remote canister stoves I've reviewed:<br />
<ul>
<li><b><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2011/02/stove-of-week-msr-windpro.html" target="_blank">MSR WindPro</a></u></b></li>
<li><b><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2013/03/the-kovea-spider-kb-1109-remote.html" target="_blank">Kovea Spider</a></u></b></li>
<li><b><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2016/12/review-snow-peak-geoshield-remote.html" target="_blank">Snow Peak GeoShield</a></u></b></li>
</ul>
Below is a photo of a remote canister stove, a Kovea Spider, running in inverted mode. Note how the fuel is connected to the stove via a hose. Note also the use of a full, 360 degree windscreen (don't do this with an upright type canister stove!).<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XQ4WBP7Temg/USrcGDHkw5I/AAAAAAAAdUw/WaYhdQt19gs/s1640/DSC00105.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XQ4WBP7Temg/USrcGDHkw5I/AAAAAAAAdUw/WaYhdQt19gs/s640/DSC00105.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">A Kovea Spider remote canister stove.<br />
Note how the canister is upside-down (inverted).</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Conclusion</span></b><br />
In addition to all of the above, there are a whole lot more articles on my blog if you want to geek out on stoves. You can Google search to your heart's content. If you prefix your Google search with "site:AdventuresInStoving", then Google will search just my blog.<br />
<br />
Now, whatever stove you pick, I hope it serves you well out there on the trail. Of course, even the safest designs need a smart operator in order to be safe. So, be careful out there – but of course enjoy.<br />
<br />
Happy hiking,<br />
<br />
HJHikin' Jimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.com18tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-3044916128528857162017-04-19T19:18:00.001-07:002017-04-25T00:00:52.668-07:00One Stove to Hike Them AllThere's a dozen land management agencies out there. What stove is acceptable to them all?<br />
<br />
There are National Parks, State Parks, BLM, National Forests, Conservancies, and who-knows-what. On a "long trail," you're going to pass through areas governed by a multitude of land management agencies – each with their own rules governing stoves. How on earth can anyone comply with all the different rules!? You need:<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">One Stove to Hike Them All</span></b>.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh5pKBB-piL0wjlnLUO3naxmfyGzqhx057v85O7w787ZxnUGUHSIV4n9bMyj1jFjimtBFRLPYasHBMJJnTYG5wPGmfO4OiEguBi7HNj0VDbUd6IRl2vPpcSyh_D2u3oF-mpSCPqgUwxBOA/s1600/One_Stove_To_Hike_Them_All.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="364" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh5pKBB-piL0wjlnLUO3naxmfyGzqhx057v85O7w787ZxnUGUHSIV4n9bMyj1jFjimtBFRLPYasHBMJJnTYG5wPGmfO4OiEguBi7HNj0VDbUd6IRl2vPpcSyh_D2u3oF-mpSCPqgUwxBOA/s640/One_Stove_To_Hike_Them_All.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Sauron knows canister stoves meet the regulations of all land management agencies</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
If you're a long trail hiker, you're looking for something light. ESBIT and alcohol often come up, but they're often restricted or completely against regulations. <br />
<br />
For example, all of the four southern most National Forests in California require (if you read their obscure websites carefully enough) a "shut off valve" (example: <u><a href="https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/sbnf/home/?cid=fsbdev7_007776" target="_blank">San Bernardino National Forest</a></u>) – all year, <i>every</i> year, irrespective of fire danger levels. That pretty much lets out alcohol. <br />
<br />
Other National Forests specifically prohibit tablet stoves. For example from Pisgah National Forest:<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
The use of commercially available portable lanterns, stoves, or heating equipment that utilize gas or pressurized liquid fuel is allowed. The stove must have an ON/OFF switch. No alcohol stoves. <b>No hexamine or solid fuel cubes</b>. [emphasis added] </blockquote>
Yes, of course, fire restrictions vary with conditions, but really, if you want to comply with the all the regs, all the time – regulations that may change as you proceed on your hike – there's really only one good lightweight solution: A canister gas stove.<br />
<br />
This is not meant to discourage those who prefer another fuel. By all means, check with the various land management agencies along your route. In many places, if it's been a wet year, there will be no fire restrictions. <br />
<br />
However:<br />
1. <b>The longer the trail, the more jurisdictions</b>. On something like the PCT, CDT, etc. there are just too many agencies to check with them all. I personally would just get a canister stove because it's the one lightweight option that complies with all regulations. I'm not going to even think about identifying and calling/writing all of the various agencies along, say, the PCT.<br />
2. <b>The regulations can change mid-hike</b>. Many agencies don't issue summer fire restrictions until June or July. In really dry years, fire restrictions can be increased every month throughout the summer. A stove that starts out in compliance may not be in compliance by the end of a hike.<br />
3. <b>A canister stove will be OK every year, everywhere</b>. Sure, some other type of stove may be OK this year, but what about next year? A canister stove is going to comply with the regs this year, next year, and every year. And a canister stove will comply with regulations all over the US. Other types of stoves may not permitted in some areas.<br />
<br />
Is this how it should be? I would argue no. ESBIT for example is the very safest possible fuel in terms of fire safety. Banning ESBIT is sort of like banning seat belts to promote automotive safety! Why do agencies ban ESBIT? Ignorance and bureaucracy. There's just no logical, science based reason to ban ESBIT.<br />
<br />
However, until agencies like the US Forest Service get out of the Dark Ages, these are the regs. For now, it is only a canister stove that is a) lightweight and b) meets all regulations.<br />
<br />
NOTE: It's relatively rare, but occasionally there are 100% fire bans, a ban where no flames of any kind are permitted. I've even seen entire National Forests closed during times of extreme fire danger. A canister stove will comply with all regulations <i>except </i>of course a total, 100% fire ban. Often major trail corridors are exempt from such total bans or at least canister stoves are exempted. It's impossible to predict when such a total ban will occur, but generally land management agencies go out of their way to publicize such bans for indeed they are exceptional.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEifwQor07x_yUwBTD_kXmw2MONhRq48fYfVNQtr0vqvW8SZqdWymxPVEnnJL1xrzVhdVPeGmRsOQPNsHQ3YyMlezrdyj2wPVSaUI1h7FiX6ukRWCKg2c8NEbxI4zRwsBZWdkf8pKcVJ4Uo/s1600/IMG_5835.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEifwQor07x_yUwBTD_kXmw2MONhRq48fYfVNQtr0vqvW8SZqdWymxPVEnnJL1xrzVhdVPeGmRsOQPNsHQ3YyMlezrdyj2wPVSaUI1h7FiX6ukRWCKg2c8NEbxI4zRwsBZWdkf8pKcVJ4Uo/s640/IMG_5835.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Canister gas stoves. <br />
A <u><b><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2016/12/review-soto-amicus.html" target="_blank">Soto Amicus</a></b></u>, left, and an <b><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2016/12/review-new-msr-pocket-rocket-2.html" target="_blank">MSR Pocket Rocket 2</a></u></b>, right.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">What Are the Choices?</span></b><br />
OK, so it's a canister stove. Now, which one? Well, that's up to you, but you may want to check out my thoughts on: <b><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2016/11/what-makes-good-backpacking-stove.html" target="_blank">What Makes a Good Backpacking Stove?</a></u></b><br />
<br />
Once you've got an idea as to criteria by which to choose, what are the choices? Well, there are three different general classes of canister stoves (upright, integrated, and remote), and within each general type, there are dozens to choose from. I will here refer you to my article: <b><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/04/canister-stoves-compared-compendium-of.html" target="_blank">Canister Stoves, Compared</a></u></b>, which discusses the three classes in relation to one another and has links to various reviews as well as to summary tables that allow you to compare the attributes of various stoves, side by side.<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Conclusion</span></b><br />
Given, the regulations (at least in the US) as they are currently constituted as of this writing, really, the only lightweight option that complies with all regulations all the time is a canister stove. Please use the resources provided in this post to figure out what your needs are and to review the many canister stoves that are available.<br />
<br />
Whatever stove you pick, I hope it serves you well in the wild. <br />
<br />
Happy stoving,<br />
<br />
HJHikin' Jimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.com13tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-25555294501290194212017-04-18T20:17:00.003-07:002017-04-18T20:38:44.986-07:00How Much Gas Do I Need for My Jetboil? (or other high efficiency stove)Here's a perennial question: How much gas do I need for my Jetboil? And, really, this would apply to not only Jetboils but to any high efficiency stove set up. <br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEirGnEXg8yLFZ-DGDky0_O02Fn2BaS3yTzycDGoW1dkGzovzINFKxWshdwXwkbUfRrgiGq_UVulNVqYAVn6VBxMiPKs6XsVUox65grjKV5twAh5UWWLCcUckNzgs3xULjdoHRn266_K3g4/s1600/IMG_2538.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEirGnEXg8yLFZ-DGDky0_O02Fn2BaS3yTzycDGoW1dkGzovzINFKxWshdwXwkbUfRrgiGq_UVulNVqYAVn6VBxMiPKs6XsVUox65grjKV5twAh5UWWLCcUckNzgs3xULjdoHRn266_K3g4/s640/IMG_2538.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">A one liter pot from Primus. <br />
Note the heat exchanger at the bottom of the pot.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
Generally, a "high efficiency stove set up" means an integrated canister stove (Jetboil, Reactor, Windburner, Eta Express, etc), but there's no reason that you can't go out and just get a heat exchanger pot and create your own high efficiency stove set up. Combine your existing stove with a heat exchanger pot, turn it down to a moderate flame, and you've got your own high efficiency stove set up.<br />
<br />
What's out there in terms of ready made high efficiency stove systems? You might want to take a look at my article <b><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/04/integrated-canister-stoves-state-of-art.html" target="_blank">Integrated Canister Stoves – The State of the Art</a></u></b>.<br />
<br />
But back to the original question: How much gas do I need for my Jetboil (or other high efficiency stove set up)?<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Background</span></b><br />
The "de facto" standard for simple backpacking cooking is the "two cup boil" (about 500 ml). Why? Because that's what most freeze dried backpacking type meals require. Things like ramen also require about 2 cups of water as do other popular backpacking meals like Knorr's rice or pasta. Of course some meals require more and others less, but 2 cups/500 ml is a pretty good starting place.<br />
<br />
But of course, some people will have hot meals once per day, some twice, and still others three times per day. So, it's not just "two cups" that we've got to worry about but also <i>how often</i> we boil up our two cups. And of course, there are those who want a hot cup of coffee, cocoa, or tea with their meals.<br />
<br />
Let's look at three scenarios and see what we come up with. I'm going to <i>arbitrarily </i>set up these numbers for a five day trip, just as an example. You'll need to adjust these numbers if your trip is either shorter or longer. <br />
<br />
First, I'll briefly describe each scenario, and then I'll have a chart "doing the math" and comparing the three scenarios. <b>There will be a discussion section after the numbers and charts.</b><br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Scenario 1 ("Minimal")</span></b><br />
In Scenario One, I'm going to describe somewhat "minimal" use. Our backpacker here will not have hot food every meal but rather will have only hot food twice a day. So, somewhat minimal but hardly extreme. Now, this is a five day trip, but I'm going to assume that our backpacker will eat breakfast <i>before</i> he or she hits the trail on day one and that he or she will leave the trail <i>after</i> supper on the last day. This is usually the way I set up my trips, so I think this is a reasonable assumption. Therefore our backpacker will have four breakfasts and four suppers. Our backpacker boils 2 cups/500 ml for each hot meal. If you run your trips differently, adjust these numbers accordingly.<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Scenario 2 ("Moderate")</span></b><br />
In Scenario Two, I'll describe what I call "moderate" use. Our backpacker in Scenario Two will eat three hot meals per day. All else remains the same.<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Scenario 3 ("Heavier")</span></b><br />
In Scenario Three, I'll describe what I call "heavier" use. Our backpacker in Scenario Three will eat three hot meals per day <i>and</i> will have one cup of hot beverage per meal. All else remains the same.<br />
<div>
<br /></div>
<div>
OK, so let's lay this out in a series of comparative charts.<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgujD5dXPkV13dl54_mAYCPEo6MrrayCbceLUZiM-XQq9Agtr0T9MxheSu6tVGR8tiX2ivN2-KYopNev9wNjekk3ZmIjPIedj_shx3s6fp6UPKFgkKpUC0hYG63jQ28nhcrB9xJ4RHXBcc/s1600/Three_Jetboil_Scenarios.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="248" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgujD5dXPkV13dl54_mAYCPEo6MrrayCbceLUZiM-XQq9Agtr0T9MxheSu6tVGR8tiX2ivN2-KYopNev9wNjekk3ZmIjPIedj_shx3s6fp6UPKFgkKpUC0hYG63jQ28nhcrB9xJ4RHXBcc/s640/Three_Jetboil_Scenarios.jpg" width="640" /></a></div>
<br /></div>
<div>
</div>
<div>
<br /></div>
<div>
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Discussion</span></b><br />
With a high efficiency stove set up, it's perfectly reasonably to boil two cups (500 ml) of water with 5 g of fuel. Of course you'll want to know the <u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2015/01/fuel-economy-efficiency-with-stoves.html" target="_blank"><b>Rules of Stove Fuel Economy</b></a></u> so that you don't wind up blowing your grams per boil. <br />
<br />
With "minimal" use, we use only 40 grams of fuel for a 5 day trip. That's pretty good! Since most small ("four ounce") size fuel canisters contain 110 grams of gas, we're totally covered with one canister. Nice.<br />
<br />
With "moderate" use, we're at 68 grams for a 5 day trip. Note that I used "4.5" as the number of days. I'm still assuming our backpacker will eat breakfast before starting and eat supper after ending, but recall that in Scenario Two (moderate), our backpacker has a hot lunch every day, so I add in an extra half day to account for the extra meal. I guess strictly speaking it should be a third of a day, but close enough. Again, we're well within the capacity of a single 110 g canister of gas.<br />
<br />
Even with "heavier" use, were still only at 101 g of fuel used. Yes, that might be cutting it a little close to bring a single 110 g canister of gas when you plan to use 101 g total. but if you ran low, you could forego you hot beverage at lunch on the last day.<br />
<br />
Now, these are fairly rigid scenarios. Every meal is the same. But even if you flex things around a bit, so long as you're not boiling more than nine cups/2.1 liters per day (and only six cups/1.4 liters on the first and last day), you're going to be OK with just one small size canister. That's pretty nice. That's the advantage of a high efficiency stove set up. When you can avoid sizing up to the next larger canister (or carrying multiple canisters), a high efficiency stove set up will likely save you weight overall.<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Compatible Canisters </span></b><br />
"But Jim! I have a <i>Jetboil</i>. Jetboil only sells 100 g canisters of gas. If I use a non-Jetboil canister the sky will collapse, I'll get a hair lip, and my dog will wet the rug." <br />
<br />
Uh, no. You can pretty much use any brand of canister with any brand of stove. Pretty much (there are exceptions). You might want to check out my article <b><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2016/11/can-i-use-any-brand-of-gas-canister.html" target="_blank">Can I Use Any Brand of Gas Canister?</a></u></b><br />
<br />
Why anyone would buy Jetboil brand small canisters when you can get more gas for the same price by buying another brand is beyond me. Yes, it's "only" a 10 g difference, but recall that a two cup boil requires only 5 g of gas with a high efficiency stove set up. <i>You're giving up <b>two</b> meals</i> every time you buy Jetboil brand small canisters. No, thanks.<br />
<br /></div>
<div>
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Cautions </span></b><br />
You should always use your own habits to estimate your fuel usage. Don't just rely on my scenarios. These scenarios are meant to stimulate your thinking not dictate your fuel usage.<br />
<br />
If you're new to this, you might want to be a bit more conservative in terms of your allotment of fuel than what I've outlined above. <br />
<br />
If you're melting snow to get water, <i>double</i> all of the above estimates.<br />
<br />
<br />
I hope you found this post useful. Thanks for joining me,<br />
<br />
HJ<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Appendix</span></b><br />
Some people, depending on what type of device they are using, may find it easier to read the chart in HTML format. Here is the chart in HTML format:<br />
<table border="2" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 544px;">
<colgroup><col style="mso-width-alt: 2377; mso-width-source: userset; width: 50pt;" width="65"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 2267; mso-width-source: userset; width: 48pt;" width="62"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 1718; mso-width-source: userset; width: 35pt;" width="47"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 402; mso-width-source: userset; width: 18pt;" width="11"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 2377; mso-width-source: userset; width: 49pt;" width="65"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 2267; mso-width-source: userset; width: 47pt;" width="62"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 1718; mso-width-source: userset; width: 35pt;" width="47"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 402; mso-width-source: userset; width: 18pt;" width="11"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 2377; mso-width-source: userset; width: 49pt;" width="65"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 2267; mso-width-source: userset; width: 47pt;" width="62"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 1718; mso-width-source: userset; width: 35pt;" width="47"></col>
</colgroup><tbody>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl65" colspan="3" height="20" style="height: 15pt; text-align: center; width: 131pt;" width="174"><i><b>Minimal</b></i></td>
<td style="width: 18pt;" width="11"><b> </b></td>
<td class="xl65" colspan="3" style="text-align: center; width: 131pt;" width="174"><i><b>Moderate</b></i></td>
<td style="width: 18pt;" width="11"><b> </b></td>
<td class="xl65" colspan="3" style="text-align: center; width: 131pt;" width="174"><i><b>Heavier</b></i></td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl63" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;"></td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>H2O (ml)</b></td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>gas (g)</b></td>
<td></td>
<td class="xl63" style="border-top: none;"></td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>H2O (ml)</b></td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>gas (g)</b></td>
<td></td>
<td class="xl63" style="border-top: none;"></td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>H2O (ml)</b></td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>gas (g)</b></td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl64" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;">Breakfast</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">500</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">5</td>
<td></td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-top: none;">Breakfast</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">500</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">5</td>
<td></td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-top: none;">Breakfast</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">750</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">7.5</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl64" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;">Lunch</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">0</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">0</td>
<td></td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-top: none;">Lunch</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">500</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">5</td>
<td></td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-top: none;">Lunch</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">750</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">7.5</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl64" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;">Dinner</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">500</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">5</td>
<td></td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-top: none;">Dinner</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">500</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">5</td>
<td></td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-top: none;">Dinner</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">750</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">7.5</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl64" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;">Per Day</td>
<td class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"></td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">10</td>
<td></td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-top: none;">Per Day</td>
<td class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"></td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">15</td>
<td></td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-top: none;">Per Day</td>
<td class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"></td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">22.5</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl64" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;">Days</td>
<td class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"></td>
<td align="right" class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">4</td>
<td></td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-top: none;">Days</td>
<td class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"></td>
<td align="right" class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">4.5</td>
<td></td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-top: none;">Days</td>
<td class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"></td>
<td align="right" class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">4.5</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl64" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;"><b>Total</b></td>
<td class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"></td>
<td align="right" class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b><span style="font-size: large;">40</span></b></td>
<td></td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-top: none;"><b>Total</b></td>
<td class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"></td>
<td align="right" class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b><span style="font-size: large;">68</span></b></td>
<td></td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-top: none;"><b>Total</b></td>
<td class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"></td>
<td align="right" class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b><span style="font-size: large;">101</span></b></td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
</div>
Hikin' Jimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-63749372896457477702017-04-16T22:48:00.000-07:002017-04-16T23:20:52.466-07:00Do Canister Gas Stoves Work at High Elevation? There's this sort of myth running around out there that somehow operating a canister gas stove at high elevation isn't going to work very well. Maybe, or so the story goes, you need to use white gasoline (or something) at higher elevations. This is a persistent myth that has been passed on, hiker to hiker, for years. I've even seen it on official Boy Scout websites. And it's just exactly that: A myth.<br />
<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhYBvOWTPVd3dGRhEDHqDQo1nR6euiQZe8KifzEEEV6a7JMLooDV7KFafTyUWa_SFK_VSmN68hd5Ih_DqsM1wz303tl9ed7VrnCOVs42krFbrk3NdEV_BWQbE0mFqUrM6OkwFeOtKBiqpY/s1600/IMG_2405%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhYBvOWTPVd3dGRhEDHqDQo1nR6euiQZe8KifzEEEV6a7JMLooDV7KFafTyUWa_SFK_VSmN68hd5Ih_DqsM1wz303tl9ed7VrnCOVs42krFbrk3NdEV_BWQbE0mFqUrM6OkwFeOtKBiqpY/s640/IMG_2405%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">A Soto WindMaster canister gas stove running just fine at over 10,500' (3200 m) in the Sierra Nevada in California.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Origins of the Myth</span></b><br />
The myth got its start back in the early 1970's when canister gas stoves started seeing more wide spread use. The fuel used back then was 100% n-butane. N-butane is a lousy fuel for cold weather. Backpackers at high elevations encountered something that caused their canister gas stoves to work poorly: Cold. And thus the myth was born. The myth is kind of fact based. Kind of. I mean gas stoves were genuinely not working well at high elevation – <i style="font-weight: bold;">but</i> the elevation itself was not the problem. The problem was actually the cold, and the problem would have been just as bad or worse at sea level. Thus, a <i>misinterpretation</i> of real events lead to the myth. The real problem was cold, but people wrongly concluded that high elevation was to blame.<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Modern Canisters</span></b><br />
Now, you may be thinking: "Hikin' Jim, you big dummy, who cares <i>why</i>? It's still cold to this day at high elevation today, so my canister stove still isn't going to work."<br />
<br />
Ah! Not so fast. Take a look at a modern backpacking canister. Typically printed on the side or top you'll see something about propane and isobutane in addition to "butane" (n-butane). Yes, back in the 1970's they only had n-butane in canisters. Now, they include propane and frequently isobutane, gasses that both have much better cold weather performance than n-butane alone.<br />
<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg67geycYCM6GOnfoxfx88I1XX710VElZ1ZsjuM2kX9N29MpaHYv4VYBlwQjJwCcfR-kaFST_HgsNpGJxnLx1UrHeTo4ki5KZjvC7fwK9nS35EC1L_0XayXIp_ml3yOO6D0597QtrNnzPs/s1600/IMG_7152%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg67geycYCM6GOnfoxfx88I1XX710VElZ1ZsjuM2kX9N29MpaHYv4VYBlwQjJwCcfR-kaFST_HgsNpGJxnLx1UrHeTo4ki5KZjvC7fwK9nS35EC1L_0XayXIp_ml3yOO6D0597QtrNnzPs/s640/IMG_7152%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">A modern backpacking canister. <br />
Note that it contains not just plain butane (n-butane) but also isobutane and propane.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
When multiple gasses are mixed together, they form a blend that has far better cold weather performance. You still need to consider cold weather, but it's no where near the issue that it once was – and cold weather can impact a gas stove irrespective of elevation.<br />
<br />
<div style="text-align: center;">
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> Vaporization (Boiling) Point</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">n-butane -0.5°C 31°F</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">isobutane -12°C 11°F</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">propane -42°C -44°F</span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-small;">The vaporization points of the three gasses commonly used in canister gas. </span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-small;">The vaporization point of a gas blend lies somewhere in between the boiling points of the constituent gasses.
</span></div>
<br />
If you are expecting cold weather, which brand of canister gas is the best to use? See: <u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2011/11/whats-best-brand-of-gas-for-cold.html" target="_blank"><b>What's the best brand of gas for cold weather?</b></a></u><br />
<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh7FbqTmC2i-s4HhKIrsqb4bY-iICcjje3MVultFT2hlDAL6Lp63BcrIcas4tzzD6gxS9S-8Kyp2vsXjB8wn0MgOTPL0dTcck21Op36eNOAdwHMG5nFRdxBL8zKj9PMVvCFL91LrhZlY-8/s1600/IMG_2547.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh7FbqTmC2i-s4HhKIrsqb4bY-iICcjje3MVultFT2hlDAL6Lp63BcrIcas4tzzD6gxS9S-8Kyp2vsXjB8wn0MgOTPL0dTcck21Op36eNOAdwHMG5nFRdxBL8zKj9PMVvCFL91LrhZlY-8/s640/IMG_2547.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">A canister gas stove running just fine at moderately high elevation, about 7200'/2200 m above sea level</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Stove Considerations at High Elevation</span></b><br />
There are still things to consider when using a stove at high elevation, but these considerations apply to <i>all</i> stoves not just canister gas stoves.<br />
<br />
<b>The boiling point of water. </b>As you climb, the boiling point of water <i>decreases</i> by almost 2 degrees Fahrenheit per 1000' of elevation gained (about 1 degree Celsius per 300 m). At sea level, water boils at 212 Fahrenheit/100 Celsius. At 10,000'/3300 m, the boiling point of water is 193 Fahrenheit/90 Celsius. Since the boiling point is lower, all else being equal, water boils <i>faster</i> at higher elevations.<br />
<br />
<b>Cooking time.</b> Since the temperature of boiling water is lower at high elevation, it generally takes <i>longer</i> to cook something. Note that this doesn't really apply to frying etc. but only to those types of cooking that involve boiling water. <br />
<br />
So, while it's faster to boil water at higher elevations, generally cooking takes longer, and you therefore <i>may</i> need more fuel when you cook at higher elevations. You can offset the need for more fuel by things like "cozy" cooking where you put your food in something insulative so the food will continue to cook even after you're done using your stove. You should also learn the <u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2015/01/fuel-economy-efficiency-with-stoves.html" target="_blank"><b>Tips and Tricks of Good Stove Fuel Economy</b></a></u>.<br />
<br />
<b>Piezoelectric ignitions. </b>Piezo based ignition systems often struggle on hand held butane type lighters as low as 5,000'/1500 m elevation. Piezoelectric ignitions tend to work better on stoves than on lighters, but above 10,000'/3000 m elevation, one may still encounter problems. You should always bring alternative means to light a stove at any elevation, but it's even more important at elevations above 10,000'/3000 m. Some common alternative means of ignition include:<br />
<ul>
<li>A non-piezoelectric butane lighter. In other words, a common flint wheel type lighter such as a Bic brand lighter.</li>
<li>Matches.</li>
<li>A fire steel (ferro rod).</li>
</ul>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg1fhdN8wMttR1grUmG30RR8YUzWMc3bTSlF6hchZHLQu_8Sa1bIb9c1v7y5h2_cXzPsHkAOWrJkPOXPEvxLr_7_VdGErvtCOCwae_Kc6r6XC0jzfPs7SOi9p6iGzAHcwScxJsXbVVUMog/s1600/ReactorAt7000+m.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg1fhdN8wMttR1grUmG30RR8YUzWMc3bTSlF6hchZHLQu_8Sa1bIb9c1v7y5h2_cXzPsHkAOWrJkPOXPEvxLr_7_VdGErvtCOCwae_Kc6r6XC0jzfPs7SOi9p6iGzAHcwScxJsXbVVUMog/s640/ReactorAt7000+m.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">An MSR Reactor operating just fine at over 23,000'/7000 m elevation on Muztagh Ata (24636'/7509 m) in China.<br />
Photo credit: Reuben Brimfield. Used by permission.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">The "Proof of the Pudding"</span></b><br />
If somehow you're not yet convinced that canister stoves not working at elevation is a myth, don't believe me; believe the mountaineers. What are more and more world class mountaineers using? Canister gas stoves. Note in the above photo that a canister gas stove is being used at over twenty three <i>thousand</i> feet in elevation. That's over 7,000 meters above sea level. This is far higher than most of us will ever climb. Mountaineers know their business. Mistakes in high elevation mountaineering are frequently fatal. Why do mountaineers use canister gas stoves? Because they work. Use by mountaineers tells us all we need to know about the myth of poor performance by canister stoves at high elevation. It's just that, a myth.<br />
<br />
<br />
Thanks for joining me as I engage in a bit of "myth busting." <br />
<br />
Happy stoving,<br />
<br />
HJ<br />
<br />Hikin' Jimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.com9tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-61785653063999293972017-04-06T00:40:00.001-07:002017-05-12T10:05:42.693-07:00Integrated Canister Stoves – The State of the ArtI thought I'd conduct a survey of the integrated canister stoves available today (e.g. Jetboil, Reactor, etc.). I therefore give you: Integrated Canister Stoves – The State of the Art.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-uObEAPCQSQE/VGwxWPT6uFI/AAAAAAAA5nA/6gmfYkxH_4sKUWq9jh2mt6slwJt8Q_14ACPcB/s1600/DSC00197.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="358" src="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-uObEAPCQSQE/VGwxWPT6uFI/AAAAAAAA5nA/6gmfYkxH_4sKUWq9jh2mt6slwJt8Q_14ACPcB/s640/DSC00197.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Integrated Canister Stoves<br />
Left to right: Jetboil Joule, Jetboil Sumo, original Jetboil PCS, Jetboil Sol</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
I recently posted a table of "regular" upright (top-mounted) canister stoves in my <u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/03/upright-canister-stoves-state-of-art.html" target="_blank">Upright Canister Stoves – The State of the Art</a></u> article. Today's article is in the same vein – but it pertains to a different class of stoves, i.e. those stoves that are "integrated" in that they are not just a burner but rather are a complete system that includes both a pot and a burner that are designed to work together. Typically such stoves are the high end product for a given company and are usually highly efficient and have special features like heat exchangers and frequently have regulator valves.<br />
<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RsOCkIjX8Vk/VH-tkoxTLvI/AAAAAAAA7Yk/XrLwFYnP3nUV7nOp2MVLFaa57Ty4K-0wQCPcB/s1600/DSC00630.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="358" src="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RsOCkIjX8Vk/VH-tkoxTLvI/AAAAAAAA7Yk/XrLwFYnP3nUV7nOp2MVLFaa57Ty4K-0wQCPcB/s640/DSC00630.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">A Jetboil Joule, left. An MSR Reactor (2.5 Liter size), right</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Click to enlarge this graphic:</span></b><br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiGtUD8kuEtMBnKQjAbqBEyCATgVfhCN-wvNGuO8fubeVX6S0S06X4AJoUtR1Yq-Vy2mtwcQVKrrQRUWoG4gms59vC6RPLzWEx0LFrkM3asEGM0EDyawo6OczxsBDYoYN-57FeHcL4G6y0/s1600/Integrated_Canister_Stoves_Chart.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiGtUD8kuEtMBnKQjAbqBEyCATgVfhCN-wvNGuO8fubeVX6S0S06X4AJoUtR1Yq-Vy2mtwcQVKrrQRUWoG4gms59vC6RPLzWEx0LFrkM3asEGM0EDyawo6OczxsBDYoYN-57FeHcL4G6y0/s1600/Integrated_Canister_Stoves_Chart.png" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">A comparative table of integrated canister stoves in order by brand and then stove within brand.<br />
<b>Click to enlarge</b></td></tr>
</tbody></table>
Absent from this table are stoves from Kovea and Fire Maple as well as some other lesser known integrated canister stoves. I'll keep adding to this table as time permits.<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Discussion</span></b><br />
How do you pick which one might suit your needs? Well, the table above may be sufficient alone, but let me make some additional comments:<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Wind</span></b><br />
If you think you'll be facing windy conditions on a regular basis, then there is no better choice than an MSR integrated canister stove, either the Reactor or the Windburner. These MSR stoves scoff at wind. They are just the absolutely most "bombproof" stoves in wind, bar none. I've been on multiple desert trips where Jetboil stoves wouldn't stay lit in gusty winds and I just couldn't boil water – at all. In those same conditions, my MSR Windburner acted as though nothing unusual were occurring. These MSR stoves are <i>amazingly </i>wind proof. Did I mention amazing?<br />
<br />
The Reactor is geared towards mountaineers and is a powerful stove suitable for snow melting. It can also burn through a lot of fuel if you let it. The Reactor is quite expensive. The Windburner is more targeted towards backpackers and is at a far more reasonable price.<br />
<br />
When the Windburner came out, Jetboil started advertising the rail upon which the pot rests as a "windscreen." Ha! What a joke. The Jetboil may have many features, but a windscreen is not one of them. Saying that a Jetboil has a built in windscreen is wishful thinking and is just marketing spin on the part of Jetboil. <br />
<br />
Doubt my word? Check out the two videos on this blog post: <a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2014/11/msr-windboiler-wind-testing.html" target="_blank">Jetboil Sol vs. MSR Windburner – Wind Testing</a>. NOTE: In the video, you'll hear me call the Windburner the "Windboiler" which was the name of the stove until Jetboil threatened legal action. MSR renamed the Windboiler to the Windburner, but I had already made and posted the video. In your mind, just substitute "Windburner" every time you hear me say "Windboiler." They are one and the same stove.<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Cold</span></b><br />
If you're going to be operating in temperatures below 0 Celsius (32 Fahrenheit), then it behooves you to get a stove with a regulator valve. Why? See my recent article: <u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2016/12/gas-stoves-in-cold-weather-regulator.html" target="_blank">Gas Stoves in Cold Weather – Regulator Valves and Inverted Canisters</a></u>. Yes, they cost more, but they perform better in cold weather – read the article. It will explain the whys and wherefores of cold weather canister stove technology as well as offer tips and tricks.<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">High Elevation</span></b><br />
Don't worry about it. You heard me right; don't worry about high elevation with respect to canister gas stoves. The spiel about elevation affecting canister gas stoves in a negative way is a <i>myth</i>. It got started in the 1970's when 100% n-butane (normal butane) was used as a fuel. N-butane is a lousy cold weather fuel. When people went high (where it was cold), the stoves often didn't work. Thus gas stoves got associated with not working well at high elevation when in fact with 100% n-butane, they wouldn't have worked any better at sea level. The really issue was a crappy fuel.<br />
<br />
Today, we don't use just straight n-butane. We use fairly sophisticated blends of propane, isobutane, and n-butane. These blends work a heck of a lot better in cold weather than 100% n-butane. High elevation has nothing to do with it, so don't worry about it.<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Real Cooking</span></b><br />
Once I was out with some friends at a beautiful lake in the Sierra Nevada Mountains. They caught some nice, tasty trout. They had a Jetboil. They <i>boiled</i> the trout. Yuck! What a waste of precious trout! The next day, they caught more trout and wisely came to me (I didn't have a Jetboil with me on that trip) and traded their fish for some time on my stove. Yum! It was delicious!<br />
<br />
Now, don't get me wrong, a Jetboil is a great stove, but it's tall and skinny. It's really not meant for frying fish. It's great for boiling water, but it's lousy for doing any real cooking. Yes, you can use their little steel adapter and then use some other pot or pan on a Jetboil burner, but that sort of defeats the purpose. I mean the great efficiency of a Jetboil is due to it's special heat exchanger pot. Absent that pot, a Jetboil burner is pretty ordinary. Oh, and yeah, you have to keep track of the steel thingy to use with other pots – and it's extra weight. You're better off with a Jetboil Mini-Mo or a Primus Eta Express stove system which have wider pots. The Eta Express is the wider of the two and has a really nice non-stick coating. For those who want to do real cooking <i>and </i>use an integrated canister stove, the Eta Express is actually a really nice option. For my review of the Eta Express, here's a link: <u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/04/review-primus-eta-express-stove-system.html" target="_blank">Review – The Primus Eta Express stove system</a></u>. Note also that the Eta Express system can use any pot or pan <i>without any adapters or modifications.</i> There's no steel thingy to carry and keep track of with the Eta Express.<br />
<i><br /></i>
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Price</span></b><br />
The Jetboil Zip is the low price leader. If you're looking to save bucks, the Zip might be your best option. However, be aware that the Zip has no ignition and has only 800 ml capacity.<br />
<br />
The Jetboil Flash series is a nice moderately priced (for an integrated canister stove) option that has a built in piezoelectric ignition.<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Size</span></b><br />
If you want to save a little weight, the 800 ml size pots that come with the Zip, Flash Lite, and Micro Mo might be a good option, but realize that you can only boil about 500 ml at a time (two cups). That's basically <i>just dinner alone</i> when using an 800 ml pot. If you want dinner and a cup of tea or hot chocolate, then you'll probably want to get the full one liter size. NOTE: You have to leave some "margin for error" at the top of a pot of a Jetboil type stove because the can rapidly boil over, so you typically only want to boil about 500 ml of water with an 800 ml Jetboil pot and only boil 750 ml of water with a one liter Jetboil pot.<br />
<br />
If you need more capacity, Jetboil sells a 1.8 L pot called the Sumo. Jetboil also sells a frying pan for use with its stoves. I have not used the Jetboil frying pan, but in general it has gotten a lot of negative reviews. Most people say "save your money."<br />
<br />
MSR has 1.0, 1.7, and 2.5 liter pots available for its Reactor system and 1.0 and 1.8 L pots available for its Windburner system. MSR also has a frying pan available for its Windburner system. I have not yet tested the frying pan.<br />
<br />
Primus has 1.0, 1.8, and 3.0 liter pots available for it's Eta Express system, but note that you can use any pot or pan with the Eta Express system.<br />
<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjJksyPC1wWm_xHULq62b8vplKk6tPToQZAkVCYk_NyNYZb2AnkZbzLs8fCtv-8uuwl4ptSPf4aUhVkuh9h0EW-x3mhXAgQBHr0rvp-3qu_g8RwvEwytEW9eWLNSPRBMg8W5xc20o6Rzaw/s1600/IMG_7075%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjJksyPC1wWm_xHULq62b8vplKk6tPToQZAkVCYk_NyNYZb2AnkZbzLs8fCtv-8uuwl4ptSPf4aUhVkuh9h0EW-x3mhXAgQBHr0rvp-3qu_g8RwvEwytEW9eWLNSPRBMg8W5xc20o6Rzaw/s640/IMG_7075%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The Primus Eta Express system is the most versatile integrated canister stove system.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Hikin' Jim's Pick</span></b><br />
If I had to take my pick, my pick would probably be the Primus Eta Express system for all around general use. All of the stove systems herein listed are good integrated canister stove systems. I don't dislike any of them (note that I have not tried the Primus Eta Lite series of stoves), but I think the Eta Express system is the most versatile. With the Eta Express I can use any pot or pan <i>without</i> having an adapter, and it's wide and has a good non-stick coating, so I can do real cooking in it if I want to. <br />
<br />
However, were I facing wind, I would pick a Reactor or Windburner. Were I facing cold, I'd pick one of the regulator valved stoves which will in general perform better in cold weather. The Eta Express does not have a regulator valve.<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: x-small;"><b>Deal alert!</b> </span><span style="font-size: x-small;">This is going to sound like I'm selling something (I'm not; I receive no benefit from the purchase of any stove), but I do note that as of this writing Massdrop has the <u><a href="https://www.massdrop.com/buy/primus-eta-express" target="_blank">Eta Express on sale</a></u> for $75 to $80, depending on how many people sign up for the "drop" (group buy). That's a heck of a price for a MSRP $130 stove system. A "drop" on Massdrop only lasts about a week or so. If you want to sign up for Massdrop, here's a link: <u><a href="https://www.massdrop.com/r/ETFBT7">https://www.massdrop.com/r/ETFBT7</a></u>. I do get some benefit from that link, maybe a free T shirt or something if enough people sign up (and buy something). If you use that link, I thank you, but please just buy what you need. I have plenty of T shirts.</span><br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Final Remarks</span></b><br />
So, there's my survey of the state of the art of integrated canister stove. I'll add more (I'm reviewing a Kovea stove now) as time permits.<br />
<br />
Thanks for joining me,<br />
<br />
HJ<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: x-small;">Disclosures: </span><span style="font-size: x-small;">Massdrop provided me with an Eta Express stove system for the purposes of my review. I assume that the reason that Massdrop is now offering the Eta Express system on sale is that my review just came out. Note that I do not receive any compensation from Massdrop for my reviews other than my getting to keep the stove that I reviewed. Inasmuch as I actually really liked the Eta Express, I suppose you could say that is a benefit, but I try really hard to review stoves objectively regardless of their personal appeal. I for example don't do a lot of winter group trips, but I've spent a considerable amount of time working with the Reactor and Joule stoves simply because they're fascinating stoves and deserve a fair shake. I receive no percentage of any sales, no salary from any outdoors brand, and have no financial relationship with any stove company. I have purchased items from Massdrop using my own money just as anyone else from the buying public would. I did get some free socks from Massdrop at one point, partly to get my opinion of them. I don't really consider socks a financial relationship, but there you have it; my cards are all on the table. Now, if Massdrop offered me a six pack of beer or some nice thank you chocolates, it would be rude of me to refuse, now wouldn't it? Are you listening, Massdrop? I like dark chocolate, OK?<br /><br />As I wrote above, i</span><span style="font-size: x-small;">f you want to sign up for Massdrop, here's a link: </span><u style="font-size: small;"><a href="https://www.massdrop.com/r/ETFBT7">https://www.massdrop.com/r/ETFBT7</a></u><span style="font-size: x-small;">. I <i>do</i> get some benefit from that link, maybe a free T shirt or something, if enough people sign up (and make a purchase). If you use that link, thank you very much, but please don't feel obligated.</span><br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: large;">Appendix I – MSR vs. Jetboil Integrated Canister Stoves</span><br />
<br />
It's interesting the direction that Jetboil has taken since they were sold to Johnson Outdoor. They now have not one but three 800 ml size offerings:<br />
-The Zip, $80 (economy model)<br />
-The Flash Lite, $100 (middle of the road model)<br />
-The Micro Mo, $130 (high end model)<br />
<br />
They only have two 1000 ml offerings:<br />
-The Flash, $100 (middle of the road model)<br />
-The MiniMo, $135 (high end model)<br />
<br />
One 1800 ml offering:<br />
-The Sumo, $140<br />
<br />
And one 2500 ml offering:<br />
-The Joule, $200<br />
<br />
MSR by contrast has fewer offerings, and those offerings are more specialized. Clearly MSR is only trying to compete on the high end and isn't even trying to touch the Zip.<br />
<br />
MSR has<br />
Two 1000 ml offerings:<br />
-1.0 L Windburner, $140<br />
-1.0 L Reactor, $200<br />
<br />
Two 1700/1800 ml offerings:<br />
-1.8 L Windburner, $160<br />
-1.7 L Reactor, $220<br />
<div>
<br /></div>
And one 2500 ml offering:<br />
-2.5 L Reactor, $240<br />
<br />
I don't believe that MSR plans to offer a 2500 ml version of the Windburner.<br />
<br />
Both the Joule and 2.5 L Reactor are fairly specialized set ups that would be used frequently for snow melting where the greater capacity would be advantageous. The Joule incidentally is the fastest backpacking stove I have ever seen, bar none. The Joule blows the Reactor away in terms of speed.<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: large;">Appendix II –</span><span style="font-size: large;"> Table in HTML form</span><br />
<br />
Below is an HTML version of the above table which may be easier to read in some browsers.
<br />
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<col span="2" style="mso-width-alt: 1462; mso-width-source: userset; width: 30pt;" width="40"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 1645; mso-width-source: userset; width: 34pt;" width="45"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 1426; mso-width-source: userset; width: 29pt;" width="39"></col>
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<tr height="16" style="height: 12.0pt;">
<td class="xl69" colspan="10" height="16" style="height: 12.0pt; width: 849pt;" width="1129"><div style="text-align: center;">
Adventures In Stoving --
https://AdventuresInStoving.blogspot.com</div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr height="16" style="height: 12.0pt;">
<td class="xl64" height="16" style="border-top: none; height: 12.0pt; width: 40pt;" width="53">Brand</td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 101pt;" width="134">Stove</td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">BTU</td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">Grams</td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 34pt;" width="45">Oz's</td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="39">Size</td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 27pt;" width="36">$$'s</td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 182pt;" width="242">Pros</td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Cons</td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Comments</td>
</tr>
<tr height="16" style="height: 12.0pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="16" style="border-top: none; height: 12.0pt; width: 40pt;" width="53">Jetboil</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 101pt;" width="134">Flash</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">4,500</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">397</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 34pt;" width="45">14.0</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="39">1.0
L</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 27pt;" width="36">$100 </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 182pt;" width="242">Moderate
price</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Not
as good in cold weather as regulated burners</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Basic
1 liter Jetboil</td>
</tr>
<tr height="16" style="height: 12.0pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="16" style="border-top: none; height: 12.0pt; width: 40pt;" width="53">Jetboil</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 101pt;" width="134">Flash
Lite</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">4,500</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">312</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 34pt;" width="45">11.0</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="39">0.8
L</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 27pt;" width="36">$100 </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 182pt;" width="242">Moderate
price</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Not
as good in cold weather as regulated burners</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Basic
0.8 liter Jetboil</td>
</tr>
<tr height="30" style="height: 22.5pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="30" style="border-top: none; height: 22.5pt; width: 40pt;" width="53">Jetboil</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 101pt;" width="134">Joule</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">10,000</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">715</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 34pt;" width="45">25.2</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="39">2.5
L</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 27pt;" width="36">$200 </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 182pt;" width="242">Fastest
stove ever. Regulator valve; inverted
canister.</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Fuel
hog. Unstable. Only uses 100 and 230 g size
canisters. Big and klunky. </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Best
cold weather Jetboil.</td>
</tr>
<tr height="16" style="height: 12.0pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="16" style="border-top: none; height: 12.0pt; width: 40pt;" width="53">Jetboil</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 101pt;" width="134">Micro
Mo</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">6,000</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">340</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 34pt;" width="45">12.0</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="39">0.8
L</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 27pt;" width="36">$140 </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 182pt;" width="242">Regulator
valve</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250"></td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Better
in cold weather than Flash</td>
</tr>
<tr height="16" style="height: 12.0pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="16" style="border-top: none; height: 12.0pt; width: 40pt;" width="53">Jetboil</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 101pt;" width="134">Mini
Mo</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">6,000</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">415</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 34pt;" width="45">14.6</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="39">1.0
L</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 27pt;" width="36">$130 </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 182pt;" width="242">Regulator
valve. Wider pot for easier access</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250"></td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Better
in cold weather than Flash</td>
</tr>
<tr height="16" style="height: 12.0pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="16" style="border-top: none; height: 12.0pt; width: 40pt;" width="53">Jetboil</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 101pt;" width="134">Zip</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">4,500</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">333</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 34pt;" width="45">11.7</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="39">0.8
L</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 27pt;" width="36">$80 </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 182pt;" width="242">Least
Expensive</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">No
piezo ignition. </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Economy
model Jetboil</td>
</tr>
<tr height="30" style="height: 22.5pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="30" style="border-top: none; height: 22.5pt; width: 40pt;" width="53">MSR</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 101pt;" width="134">Reactor</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">9,000</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">417</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 34pt;" width="45">14.7</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="39">1.0
L</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 27pt;" width="36">$200 </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 182pt;" width="242">Regulator
valve, <span class="font6">extremely </span><span class="font5"> wind resistant. Good handle.</span></td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">No
piezo ignition. Expensive.</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Very
fast. Turn down to save fuel. Very popular with mountaineer for snow
melting.</td>
</tr>
<tr height="30" style="height: 22.5pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="30" style="border-top: none; height: 22.5pt; width: 40pt;" width="53">MSR</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 101pt;" width="134">Windburner</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">7,000</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">432</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 34pt;" width="45">15.2</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="39">1.0
L</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 27pt;" width="36">$140 </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 182pt;" width="242">Regulator
valve, <span class="font6">extremely </span><span class="font5"> wind resistant. Nice handle.</span></td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Heaviest
1 liter integrated canister stove. No piezo ignition. </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">More
targeted towards backpackers whereas the Reactor is more toward mountaineers.</td>
</tr>
<tr height="30" style="height: 22.5pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="30" style="border-top: none; height: 22.5pt; width: 40pt;" width="53">Primus</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 101pt;" width="134">Eta
Express</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">8,900</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">395</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 34pt;" width="45">13.9</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="39">1.0
L</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 27pt;" width="36">$130 </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 182pt;" width="242">Wide
pot; easy access. Nice non-stick
coating</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">"Windscreen"
is a joke; leave it at home.</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Very
fast. Turn down to save fuel. Very good unit overall despite bad
windscreen.</td>
</tr>
<tr height="16" style="height: 12.0pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="16" style="border-top: none; height: 12.0pt; width: 40pt;" width="53">Primus</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 101pt;" width="134">Eta
Lite</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">4,500</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">360</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 34pt;" width="45">12.7</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="39">0.5
L</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 27pt;" width="36">$105 </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 182pt;" width="242"></td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250"></td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Haven't
ever seen; can't comment.</td>
</tr>
<tr height="16" style="height: 12.0pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="16" style="border-top: none; height: 12.0pt; width: 40pt;" width="53">Primus</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 101pt;" width="134">Eta
Lite+</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">4,500</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">390</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 34pt;" width="45">13.8</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="39">0.5
L</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 27pt;" width="36">$115 </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 182pt;" width="242"></td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250"></td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Haven't
ever seen; can't comment.</td>
</tr>
<tr height="16" style="height: 12.0pt;">
<td class="xl69" colspan="10" height="16" style="height: 12.0pt; width: 849pt;" width="1129"><div style="text-align: center;">
Adventures In Stoving --
https://AdventuresInStoving.blogspot.com</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
Hikin' Jimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.com10tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-34023507860685620702017-04-02T00:10:00.001-07:002017-04-02T15:31:41.849-07:00Review – The Primus Eta Express Stove System The Primus Eta Express stove system is an upright integrated canister gas stove system (something along the lines of a Jetboil). I really liked this wider pot approach (as compared to a typical skinny Jetboil or an MSR Windburner pot), but before I give you my final analysis of the system, let's go through the features.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjzN3dwnYCTSjNDp0E78TC8zygN7X6tM6An0361D2NhTGEjTnSHxWAwDBQr5kxbyuJmjMcvwzqsTPRs6-tLsutHAzg23bCN3hUvlckYMQ9NgtCVnD6gCFIXfrqWGUGyvFqA2UO1aCJopaE/s1600/IMG_7506%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjzN3dwnYCTSjNDp0E78TC8zygN7X6tM6An0361D2NhTGEjTnSHxWAwDBQr5kxbyuJmjMcvwzqsTPRs6-tLsutHAzg23bCN3hUvlckYMQ9NgtCVnD6gCFIXfrqWGUGyvFqA2UO1aCJopaE/s640/IMG_7506%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The Primus Eta Express stove system</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
The system features a really nice ceramic based non-stick coated one liter pot with a well shielded, built in heat exchanger. The pot has volumetric markings on the side wall at 0.3, 0.6, and 0.9 liters. The markings are clearly visible on both the inside and outside of the pot. The exterior of the pot is hard anodized.<br />
<br />
Note: This pot is also available in 1.8 L and 3.0 L sizes.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj6y0SwDDwRHbNTqJHnk-wpFLE_rIkYEf6jv8rFepyntW30jhn96aBz2VVk8ffQJgCjtcSnhyphenhypheneLwQtMkfa1WS9ZuPutTsLov1djvN4WU0IawcGX8w8PyfMOtmxwd5BsvLG5OsdGSSlZA4M/s1600/IMG_7492%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj6y0SwDDwRHbNTqJHnk-wpFLE_rIkYEf6jv8rFepyntW30jhn96aBz2VVk8ffQJgCjtcSnhyphenhypheneLwQtMkfa1WS9ZuPutTsLov1djvN4WU0IawcGX8w8PyfMOtmxwd5BsvLG5OsdGSSlZA4M/s640/IMG_7492%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The one liter pot (with heat exchanger) of the Primus Eta Express stove system.<br />
Note volumetric markings on the side of the pot.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
With the way the heat exchanger is protected, you've got little to worry about when packing it or setting it down on the ground in camp. The guard of the heat exchanger will itself conduct heat to the contents of the pot making it all the more efficient. <b>Boils were noticeably fast even on low flame settings.</b> This is a very efficient set up with excellent fuel economy.<br />
<br />
The non-stick coating feels silky smooth and slick to the touch. Nothing stuck to it even when I overcooked some noodles – which could be a real mess on a non-coated pot. <br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgfD4L7weeBKywg5VnQ2bJ9k2TfOTCxyF8dyIO5c3EwIHTEaFOWCGmUODeDu6g0-neabqhsNQuIs3zAZR671pROt01NV5aLZvs4Ju7E1p4_mUf-pLXeACZ89dGdIVveacfUXqH5dhaxPHM/s1600/IMG_7487%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgfD4L7weeBKywg5VnQ2bJ9k2TfOTCxyF8dyIO5c3EwIHTEaFOWCGmUODeDu6g0-neabqhsNQuIs3zAZR671pROt01NV5aLZvs4Ju7E1p4_mUf-pLXeACZ89dGdIVveacfUXqH5dhaxPHM/s640/IMG_7487%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The glossy, slick non-stick coating of the Primus Eta Express pot</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
The Primus Eta Express stove system comes with a red plastic bowl that nests inside the pot. The bowl is actually quite functional, in marked contrast to the little plastic cup that protects the heat exchanger on a Jetboil. I've never found the cup on a Jetboil very useful, but the bowl on the Primus Eta Express stove system is pretty nice bowl. Now, for a soloist, you'd probably want to leave the bowl at home, but for a team of two, one person could eat out of the pot (if you were cooking in the pot, not out of a bag) and the other out of the bowl.<br />
<br />
The bowl also protects the pot from any scratches if you store either the stove or a canister in the pot. There's a small rectangle of foam that can be laid on the bottom of the pot if so desired such that the bowl does not rest directly on the non-stick coating.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg5khyphenhyphenjV9jNrm80fl6JBGOpPVN72MylqX7sE9Qdn-CZVHDZes_VD052FVGkmNos29jrCIu2tFDBiY6xxw6CB_LXCjUQC7whu-tXiM2eS15Xa4IpUSEHelTuLjaRTzxR4xtWmGrAX5-l_r4/s1600/IMG_7477%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg5khyphenhyphenjV9jNrm80fl6JBGOpPVN72MylqX7sE9Qdn-CZVHDZes_VD052FVGkmNos29jrCIu2tFDBiY6xxw6CB_LXCjUQC7whu-tXiM2eS15Xa4IpUSEHelTuLjaRTzxR4xtWmGrAX5-l_r4/s640/IMG_7477%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The Primus Eta Express stove system's bowl nests neatly inside the pot</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
The Primus Eta Express stove system can accommodate both the stove and a 110 g canister of fuel inside.<br />
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<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Both the stove and a 110 g canister will fit inside the Primus Eta Express stove system</td></tr>
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The canister sticks up a little bit, but that's not a problem since the lid has a raised portion that serves as a means to pick up the lid off the pot. The lid also has a built in colander for draining, say, pasta or vegetables.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj9q9xdVpexX7DrHDpIdCPbk0AGJEahd5FHm-2LTzFR_uczcaxlV5LVOmH2eYQMa82iYSFKfzY8sKky3JJdP0E41GlYKWBtRpABU0xPR17Htn0sVEObw_upnFFGOLQwMPsYolsY8S9_2Yg/s1600/IMG_7053%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj9q9xdVpexX7DrHDpIdCPbk0AGJEahd5FHm-2LTzFR_uczcaxlV5LVOmH2eYQMa82iYSFKfzY8sKky3JJdP0E41GlYKWBtRpABU0xPR17Htn0sVEObw_upnFFGOLQwMPsYolsY8S9_2Yg/s640/IMG_7053%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The lid of the Primus Eta Express stove system has a built in colander.<br />
One grabs the lid by the insulated red portion.</td></tr>
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The pot handles well insulated so that one does not burn one's hands when picking up the pot. The handles are long and provide ample leverage.<br />
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Central to any stove system is of course the stove itself. The Primus Express stove is a nice, well made stove, but at 98 g/3.5 oz is a bit heavy for its class. Many comparable stoves are about one ounce lighter. Yes, that's "only" an ounce, but remember that if on average one can shave just two ounces off of each piece of gear, one would reduce their pack weight by about ten pounds (assuming that one is a typical backpacker that carries 80 - 100 items in their pack). As Colin Fletcher put it so well: "Take care of the ounces, and the pounds will take care of themselves." <br />
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The stove comes in a little roll top type bag with a plastic clip closure. The stove bag is tough and well made, but at 25 g/0.9 oz, it's a bit heavy in my opinion. I'd probably just toss my stove directly in the red plastic bowl or wrap my stove in a bandana and leave the stove bag at home.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgtd0juTNw6DDhsUENvZZs1hRxr6RxnwmflUO0akw_yUOW7m6awrObxLjhwlJVnOzrYaPmmll6oAjm8tYX07lWIc-eH2xx7nha4uOPqEyWk48ftyIGAmWbG74MJbrjby69OwOVt9BWahcg/s1600/IMG_7019%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgtd0juTNw6DDhsUENvZZs1hRxr6RxnwmflUO0akw_yUOW7m6awrObxLjhwlJVnOzrYaPmmll6oAjm8tYX07lWIc-eH2xx7nha4uOPqEyWk48ftyIGAmWbG74MJbrjby69OwOVt9BWahcg/s640/IMG_7019%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The stove bag for a Primus Eta Express stove</td></tr>
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The Primus Eta Express stove comes with a piezoelectric ignition. Should you dislike the ignition, it can be removed. The ignition is very functional but is a little bit big and isn't quite as sophisticated as the ignition systems coming out from some other manufacturers, most notably Soto. The ignition also sticks up above the burner where it is prone to snagging. Still, the ignition works well and is super convenient. Note however that no ignition system is every 100%, particularly at elevations above 10,000 feet (about 3,000 meters). <b>Always carry a back up means of ignition. Always. </b>Personally, I like a fire steel, but flint wheel type lighter or matches are other good means of ignition.<br />
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I can't comment on the long term reliability of the ignition on a Primus Eta Express stove, but I do note that the spark wire sits directly in the flame at all times.<br />
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<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The flame of a Primus Eta Express stove. The yellow portion of the flame is where the ignition is.</td></tr>
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The valve knob works well and provides excellent flame control. The stove simmers well. Users of heavy mittens or gloves might have trouble gripping the knob. Most manufacturers use a wire handle that is easier to grip when wearing mittens or gloves. It's interesting that Primus here differs in their approach. I wouldn't say this is necessarily a negative, but it is something to think about and be aware of.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiOKSn6u57hn1NJ1sz88rNIa__3v2yWcoQy932RG7YTzDojWljyUMQ2xKORx57aJX-e9L5qL_cKQG6bhmEZtR62y3VKJpwCt1HOjl-9gQiWcwpqy8-omiTxu_Dh-EvSUloab38avGiPdDw/s1600/IMG_7024%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiOKSn6u57hn1NJ1sz88rNIa__3v2yWcoQy932RG7YTzDojWljyUMQ2xKORx57aJX-e9L5qL_cKQG6bhmEZtR62y3VKJpwCt1HOjl-9gQiWcwpqy8-omiTxu_Dh-EvSUloab38avGiPdDw/s640/IMG_7024%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The Primus Eta Express stove is roughly as big around as the base of a 110 g canister.</td></tr>
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The pot supports of the Primus Eta Express stove are wide with grippy, well defined teeth. I find that Primus is doing a really good job, better than other stove manufacturers (except maybe Soto), with make sharply defined teeth on their pot supports that really grip a pot well. The one criticism of the pot supports that I have is that they don't fold well out of the way. They take a lot of room up.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiEEeUSyuDTcSw2yEYSIrL2hKNAawhPMlh4t9GUxj5sa7KT9s1cLqcQ-qKIhIALSuyaMnfunNb6GJNzliA_nwfCacXfwFBzkuMZjNvBOvomRD-gBd8vDAnu23FfKeHPnJvl0pC6gHOwe0M/s1600/IMG_7207%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiEEeUSyuDTcSw2yEYSIrL2hKNAawhPMlh4t9GUxj5sa7KT9s1cLqcQ-qKIhIALSuyaMnfunNb6GJNzliA_nwfCacXfwFBzkuMZjNvBOvomRD-gBd8vDAnu23FfKeHPnJvl0pC6gHOwe0M/s640/IMG_7207%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Left to right: Primus Eta Express stove, Kovea Supalite (aka "Camp 56"), and a Markill Hot Rod.<br />
Note how far to the left the pot supports stick out on the Eta Express stove.</td></tr>
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Just about every stove manufacturer out there has figured out a way to make things a bit more compact than the Primus Eta Express stove's pot supports. They're not horrible in terms of the space they take up, but there is room for improvement. In terms of function, they are excellent pot supports, far above average.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhKEKdy5yAZQ_jn33WmF7Izvs6D-IMzRCJDAPLaucijObipsLjeY2NPJV1SjERPwprASXNExQYCoth7iDilA-bvWKjO5XthiWeGAG1JX3i2sTmccZP3svvv7W05aiy4y05lmd-zNlcfEOM/s1600/IMG_7131%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhKEKdy5yAZQ_jn33WmF7Izvs6D-IMzRCJDAPLaucijObipsLjeY2NPJV1SjERPwprASXNExQYCoth7iDilA-bvWKjO5XthiWeGAG1JX3i2sTmccZP3svvv7W05aiy4y05lmd-zNlcfEOM/s640/IMG_7131%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Most stoves use folding pot supports to save space. The Primus Eta Express stove takes up more room than average.<br />
Left to right: MSR Pocket Rocket, Primus Eta Express stove, MSR Pocket Rocket 2, Kovea Supalite</td></tr>
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The Primus Eta Express stove system comes with a little partial windscreen that fits neatly around the pot for efficient packing.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg0FIVs6aJHecn0w93g7078oBVWc6ip0Qm7GBqcuuj5rTRzfK8Ofxx8-T5G7LKp8YfJcoVOCTXoVM7kiMrpsvxIgfntgwEksNkLzFq5I9qDGGAJeCf4ds1oXpt6GvKxhyEKAdjUlfVJixY/s1600/IMG_7012%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg0FIVs6aJHecn0w93g7078oBVWc6ip0Qm7GBqcuuj5rTRzfK8Ofxx8-T5G7LKp8YfJcoVOCTXoVM7kiMrpsvxIgfntgwEksNkLzFq5I9qDGGAJeCf4ds1oXpt6GvKxhyEKAdjUlfVJixY/s640/IMG_7012%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The Primus Eta Express stove comes with a small windscreen</td></tr>
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The windscreen has a slot in it. A pot support fits into the slot, and the stove then rests on a red plastic "shelf" attached to the burner. <br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgWlAxb0r-yVlecipzpnLW_04xSF3gvN2VuAiXFrA_ODfq6jwKpw01A7f8zRct-cc6XmfkrbroDpeUOYLfrcwsdgzxb76RpwLO0UaLanIIj3nWkGkF11__Tf356GTyfJ8SmIIRMhedyRHQ/s1600/IMG_7028%255B2%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgWlAxb0r-yVlecipzpnLW_04xSF3gvN2VuAiXFrA_ODfq6jwKpw01A7f8zRct-cc6XmfkrbroDpeUOYLfrcwsdgzxb76RpwLO0UaLanIIj3nWkGkF11__Tf356GTyfJ8SmIIRMhedyRHQ/s640/IMG_7028%255B2%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Slide the pot support with the red "shelf" into the slot on the windscreen</td></tr>
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The far ends of the windscreen are held to the other two pot supports by magnets. I found it pretty easy on and easy off. I also found it reasonably secure when in place. The windscreen will not easily fall off although it can shift a bit if you bump it.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiyyyB0SPlTsBAUqtFkwJplq6Up1kY__wa2klo6a1A0h958ZgIX9AbkoRzYa5_AdMdZDvX-K5XwjJV6IcfK-zzcvug7SbggKE3hdUaFQzAjmfuIqsZagskkGQ9aFBy1JjNy2zffTLeRqaw/s1600/IMG_7031%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiyyyB0SPlTsBAUqtFkwJplq6Up1kY__wa2klo6a1A0h958ZgIX9AbkoRzYa5_AdMdZDvX-K5XwjJV6IcfK-zzcvug7SbggKE3hdUaFQzAjmfuIqsZagskkGQ9aFBy1JjNy2zffTLeRqaw/s640/IMG_7031%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The windscreen in place on a Primus Eta Express stove. Note the large hole in the windscreen.</td></tr>
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You will note in the above photo that there is a large hole in the windscreen. Presumably this hole is to preclude <i>any </i>possibility of the windscreen causing heat build up that might cause a canister explosion. While the hole removes any chance of an explosion, it also removes any chance that the windscreen will block any wind. In my testing, I found the windscreen to be of no benefit whatsoever. Maybe if one were in a lab with very sensitive test equipment, then maybe could detect some subtle improvement in performance brought about by this windscreen, but I was unable to find any perceptible benefit. It looks like the lawyers killed this one folks, and it's dead on arrival. The best place for this windscreen? In the recycle bin. Seriously, leave this one at home, folks, it's utterly useless. <br />
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Now, don't get me wrong. I said up front that I <i>like</i> this stove system, and indeed I do. But this windscreen should never have gotten out of the door of the Primus development lab. It's more gimmick than windscreen. Perhaps one could use some aluminum foil or heat resistant tape and block off the hole, but as is, it just doesn't work in any discernable way.<br />
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The entire system is held together by a mesh bag and is quite compact as a set. I think the compactness of the Primus Eta Express integrated stove system compares well with the compactness of other integrated stove systems like the Jetboil Flash or the MSR Windburner.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgMsMViiyDRCaJ8TUXGsH5m6H_OlgyrbkZDzCyLLuG-_j0kjtNIAvm_V0mvXXK0ToSPwiIy-ctG9JVot-BqKPYo9nRDLX2-KAxsFJ6_j3N3EjrEajPMXDP7hgcDMn-hA5Unw-NQ94R2XSg/s1600/IMG_7466%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgMsMViiyDRCaJ8TUXGsH5m6H_OlgyrbkZDzCyLLuG-_j0kjtNIAvm_V0mvXXK0ToSPwiIy-ctG9JVot-BqKPYo9nRDLX2-KAxsFJ6_j3N3EjrEajPMXDP7hgcDMn-hA5Unw-NQ94R2XSg/s640/IMG_7466%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The Primus Eta Express stove system is quite compact for a one liter integrated stove system.</td></tr>
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<span style="font-size: large;">Flexibility</span><br />
The Primus Eta Express stove system is a really flexible system. If you want to use a different pot on this system, you just do it. There's no steel attachment that you have to carry as with a Jetboil. There are no little screws you have to emplace as with a Primus Eta Lite. Really, you can use any stove or any pot with this system, swapping things out at will. Indeed, had you a stove that you really liked, you could presumably just buy the pot and use your existing stove, but do note that the Eta Express stove is ideally suited and tuned for the Eta Express pot.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj8ayHf6bxU6vQjSZMRuAtic1xfKyFiLpSuyDvDNl3jJa48mONcuEVKS30gC_UGVf6aJgqVSJRCiX8Kr5V9HsYLsqQYIGvmGxOSCXLCEyguoNg66qeBZsinxb-V0106Y1vgcaxDjwhi_T0/s1600/IMG_7239%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj8ayHf6bxU6vQjSZMRuAtic1xfKyFiLpSuyDvDNl3jJa48mONcuEVKS30gC_UGVf6aJgqVSJRCiX8Kr5V9HsYLsqQYIGvmGxOSCXLCEyguoNg66qeBZsinxb-V0106Y1vgcaxDjwhi_T0/s640/IMG_7239%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Simultaneous wind testing using a "control" stove vs. the Primus Eta Express stove.<br />
Note the 0.9 L Primus kettle on the Eta Express stove. One can use any pot with the Primus Eta Express stove.</td></tr>
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<span style="font-size: large;">Component weights</span><br />
If you brought along everything that comes in the box, you'd have a total weight of 530 grams/18.7 oz, as shown in the first table below. <br />
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But I wouldn't bring everything. I'd probably leave the bowl at home unless I were traveling with a partner. I'd also most likely leave the little stove pouch at home, and I'd certainly leave the useless windscreen at home. Leaving those items at home, your weight would be a far more reasonable 397 g/14.0 oz, as shown in the second table.<br />
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397 g/14.0 oz compares reasonably well with other integrated canister stove systems.<br />
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<table border="2" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 215px;">
<colgroup><col style="mso-width-alt: 4205; mso-width-source: userset; width: 86pt;" width="115"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 1718; mso-width-source: userset; width: 35pt;" width="47"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 1938; mso-width-source: userset; width: 40pt;" width="53"></col>
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<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl69" colspan="3" height="20" style="height: 15pt; text-align: center; width: 161pt;" width="215">Everything
Weights</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl67" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;"><b>Item</b></td>
<td class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>Grams</b></td>
<td class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>Ounces</b></td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl68" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;">Stuff Sack</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">21</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">0.7</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl68" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;">Windscreen</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">56</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">2.0</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl68" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;">Stove pouch</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">25</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">0.9</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl68" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;">Lid</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">60</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">2.1</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl68" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;">Foam</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">2</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">0.1</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl68" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;">Bowl</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">50</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">1.8</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl68" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;">Stove</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">98</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">3.5</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl68" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;">Pot</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">218</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">7.7</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl68" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;"><b>Total</b>
(weighed)</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>530</b></td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>18.7</b></td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
<table border="2" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 215px;">
<colgroup><col style="mso-width-alt: 4205; mso-width-source: userset; width: 86pt;" width="115"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 1718; mso-width-source: userset; width: 35pt;" width="47"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 1938; mso-width-source: userset; width: 40pt;" width="53"></col>
</colgroup><tbody>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl69" colspan="3" height="20" style="height: 15.0pt; width: 161pt;" width="215"><div style="text-align: center;">
Minimum
Weights</div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl67" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;"><b>Item</b></td>
<td class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>Grams</b></td>
<td class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>Ounces</b></td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl68" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;">Stuff Sack</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">21</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">0.7</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl68" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;">Lid</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">60</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">2.1</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl68" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;">Stove</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">98</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">3.5</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl68" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;">Pot</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">218</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">7.7</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl68" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;"><b>Total</b>
(weighed)</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>397</b></td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>14.0</b></td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
<span style="font-size: large;">Price</span><br />
MSRP for the entire (see full component list, above) Primus Eta Express stove system is $130. This compares favorably with a Windburner (MSRP $140) or a Mini-Mo (MSRP $140), <i>but</i> the Primus Eta Express stove does not have a regulated burner. A regulated burner can give one a distinct advantage in cold weather (see <u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2016/12/gas-stoves-in-cold-weather-regulator.html" target="_blank">Gas Stoves in Cold Weather – Regulator Valves and Inverted Canisters</a></u> for further information). The Primus Eta Express stove does not have this cold weather advantage. It's a bit higher priced than say a Jetboil Flash (MSRP $100). I strongly prefer the more flexible (both in terms of cookware and what you can cook) Primus Eta Express stove system, but it remains to be seen whether the system will be economically viable. I notice that REI was carrying the Primus Eta Express stove system last year but that they are not this year. This may be an indicator that the Primus Eta Express stove system may not be selling well, but I speculate.<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: large;">Analysis and Conclusions</span><br />
Overall, I really liked the system. Yeah, the windscreen is lousy, but overall, this is a really nice system. I found the wide pot was much easier to cook in than a tall, skinny pot. The simmer control is excellent, and I could do real cooking. The non-stick coating is very good; a spider wouldn't be able to climb up the sides of this pot. The pot is wide and low enough that it can be used as a frying pan. It wouldn't be an ideal frying pan, but it would be a reasonable compromise for backpacking, and would be <i>outstanding</i> compared to a tall, thin pot (like a Jetboil). Eggs, even a single pancake could be cooked herein. I'd prefer the Eta Express pot 10 to 1 over a tall Jetboil style pot for frying fish.<br />
<br />
The real advantage of this system to my mind is in its flexibility. One gets a very functional complete kit, but one can easily swap out pots or stoves as desired with no adapters or modifications needed.<br />
<br />
<b>The Primus Eta Express Stove System</b><br />
<br />
<i>What's good about it?</i><br />
<ul>
<li>Very flexible #1 – use any pot or pan you like, no adapters, no modifications</li>
<li>Very flexible #2 – the wide pot allows one to cook a variety of foods, foods more complex than merely boiling water. The wide pot can double as something of a frying pan.</li>
<li>Highly efficient – fast boils <i>and</i> good fuel economy</li>
<li>Excellent non-stick coating</li>
<li>Great pot stability</li>
<li>Silicone coating on the pot handles</li>
<li>Silicone band on pot lid</li>
<li>Packs compactly</li>
<li>Well protected, durable heat exchanger</li>
</ul>
<i>What's not so good about it?</i><br />
<ul>
<li>The windscreen is a joke</li>
<li>The stove could be more compact and is too heavy for its class</li>
<li>The stove bag could be lighter</li>
<li>Spark point on piezoelectric ignition sticks up and can get snagged</li>
</ul>
<br />
The Primus Eta Express Stove System: Highly recommended (except for the "windscreen")<br />
<br />
I thank you for joining me,<br />
<br />
HJ<br />
<br />
<span style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: 12.8px;">Disclosures: The Primus Eta Express Stove System used in this review was provided to me at no charge by Massdrop, a "group buy" site. I have no financial stake in Massdrop, neither do I receive any payments for my reviews from Massdrop (or anyone else for that matter). </span></span><span style="font-size: 12.8px; text-align: center;">I have received some free socks as a beta tester as well other stoves for other reviews. In addition, I have made several purchases with my own money from Massdrop just as any other member of the public would do. I do not receive any discounts or special pricing from Massdrop. The fact that Massdrop gave me an all expenses paid trip to Rio de Janeiro in their luxurious corporate jet of course had no influence whatsoever on my review (don't I wish?). I do hope maybe Massdrop will buy me a beer some day, but we'll just have to see about that. In the mean time, rest assured that my stove reviews are independent and as free of bias as I can humanly make them.</span><br />
<span style="font-size: 12.8px; text-align: center;"><br /></span>
<span style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: 12.8px;">If you want to, you can join Massdrop via this link: <u><a href="https://www.massdrop.com/r/ETFBT7">https://www.massdrop.com/r/ETFBT7</a></u></span></span><span style="font-size: 12.8px; text-align: center;">. If enough people sign up and actually buy something, I think I get a free T shirt or something. Do as you see fit, but you wouldn't want to see me naked, now would you? </span><br />
<span style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: 12.8px;"><br /></span></span>
<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgjQ8dv9NjqcCxDgBLYH50Ys5PwVYhMyJVzXRp8NmmunpqaNNP7v8uk6W_S-J-4q4Sj-pCkp3FryVCWX37iFcZSL0PVx3NUENdSH3y5L5b9588pPxDb1raHHowzSra7X7hG199bZYdMPz0/s1600/IMG_7223%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgjQ8dv9NjqcCxDgBLYH50Ys5PwVYhMyJVzXRp8NmmunpqaNNP7v8uk6W_S-J-4q4Sj-pCkp3FryVCWX37iFcZSL0PVx3NUENdSH3y5L5b9588pPxDb1raHHowzSra7X7hG199bZYdMPz0/s640/IMG_7223%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Simul-testing the Primus Eta Express stove against other stoves.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<span style="font-size: 12.8px; text-align: center;">Photos were shot and testing was conducted at:</span><br />
<br />
<ul>
<li><span style="font-size: 12.8px;">My place of residence, primarily out doors</span></li>
<li><span style="font-size: 12.8px;">Crystal Cove State Park</span></li>
<li><span style="font-size: 12.8px;">Angeles National Forest</span></li>
<li><span style="font-size: 12.8px;">Cleveland National Forest</span></li>
<li><span style="font-size: 12.8px;">Thomas F. Reilly Wilderness Park</span></li>
</ul>
Hikin' Jimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-26483290370565714462017-03-25T23:22:00.000-07:002017-06-11T20:28:43.979-07:00The G-Works R1 Gas Saver – Refilling Backpacking Canisters IIEver notice how <i>expensive</i> the small canisters of gas are? But the big canisters are cheap by comparison (per gram). Wouldn't it be nice to pay the big canister rate for small canisters? Well, you can – with a G-Works Gas Saver adapter.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiIDuBYNYTCVz-qfgE-jX6iCrTYidUQxCagYzQHUy79yFp_9APE08VSUNA1Loh7ddiqJJl4BSishPrfdPFrRAtw7JCjVqWi4X573AjBTLRoPpFiDSmbzINrcXAFjhYlhr4EhoOKfeegylI/s1600/IMG_7312%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiIDuBYNYTCVz-qfgE-jX6iCrTYidUQxCagYzQHUy79yFp_9APE08VSUNA1Loh7ddiqJJl4BSishPrfdPFrRAtw7JCjVqWi4X573AjBTLRoPpFiDSmbzINrcXAFjhYlhr4EhoOKfeegylI/s640/IMG_7312%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">A G-Works R1 Gas Saver adapter can help one avoid paying the "convenience charge" of small canisters.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
I recently walked into a retailer and saw canister gas for $4.95 for 100 grams. Easy math: $4.95 for 100 grams works out to $0.0495 per gram; that's basically a nickel (five cents) per gram of fuel. OK, so a nickel isn't <i>that</i> much, but <i>why pay more?</i><br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiO9czsp_JPoR5C31U0RCorkvtll83ZrW7Gr4itmqdg2xIaLlyEY0sL7Z2r4n0niXrUrXF5CmEZ2Wx2ze_wd8w7rdu40w8y96vHbvT0k2Rkm80s5VNU7XGEWXxcACEezlJqBv5aKQVwayg/s1600/IMG_6127%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiO9czsp_JPoR5C31U0RCorkvtll83ZrW7Gr4itmqdg2xIaLlyEY0sL7Z2r4n0niXrUrXF5CmEZ2Wx2ze_wd8w7rdu40w8y96vHbvT0k2Rkm80s5VNU7XGEWXxcACEezlJqBv5aKQVwayg/s640/IMG_6127%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">A 100 gram canister of gas often retails for $4.95. That's a nickel per<i> gram.</i></td></tr>
</tbody></table>
You <i>know</i> that gas is so much cheaper if you buy the big 440 or 450 g canisters. For example, at Walmart, I recently saw 440 g canisters for $7.72 or $0.0175 per gram. That's basically two cents per gram, less than <i>half</i> the price of gas when sold in the 100 gram canister.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhCPgrn_BNj-Ez3lt3JmlSSI6nr46ow8kqpMzzO1KkFoyt1pT-GAESXOfG0r-PjIgnHbeHcvevIsID1nj9_GKsus_S3VHQVq7AgLczcu_TSDD7LU7wSJ2oBQMt9WwpANn3FlVCITH11Jmg/s1600/IMG_7119%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhCPgrn_BNj-Ez3lt3JmlSSI6nr46ow8kqpMzzO1KkFoyt1pT-GAESXOfG0r-PjIgnHbeHcvevIsID1nj9_GKsus_S3VHQVq7AgLczcu_TSDD7LU7wSJ2oBQMt9WwpANn3FlVCITH11Jmg/s640/IMG_7119%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">440 gram canisters for sale for $7.72</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
Well, I suppose five cents a gram isn't the end of the world, but wouldn't it be nice if you could buy gas for two cents a gram <i>but</i> in the small canisters? I mean, with the 440 g size, who wants to carry those big, heavy beasts of a canister around for weekend's worth of hiking? Not me, thank you.<br />
<br />
Well, you <i>can</i> pay the big canister rate for small canisters. Yes, that's right, you <i>can</i>. You just need a G-Works R1 Gas Saver. The G-Works Gas Saver basically hooks up two canisters. When your 100 or 110 g canister runs out, you refill from a 440 or 450 g canister. Thus, you pay the 440 g rate for the convenient 100 or 100 g size canister.<br />
<br />
<b style="font-size: x-large;">Custom Filling</b><br />
You can also custom fill canisters to exactly the amount of gas you need for a given trip. Say you need approximately 12 ounces of fuel (about 340 g) for a given trip. Well, gas is only sold in the US in approximately 4, 8, and 16 ounce sizes (roughly 110, 220, and 450 grams respectively). If you want 12 oz of fuel, you have to buy 16 oz and carry an extra quarter pound of dead weight. Yes, you could flare off the gas, but that's kind of a waste. <br />
<br />
Or, you could carry one 8 oz (about 230 g) and one 4 oz (about 110 g) canister, but remember a 100 g canister of gas weighs 200 g full and 100 g when empty. In other words, the canister weighs as much as the fuel. So, by carrying two canisters, you're carrying a lot more steel, and you're really not saving much weight by carrying one 4 oz and one 8 oz canister when compared to carrying a single 440 or 450 g canister.<br />
<br />
For example, I took some full canisters, and put them on a scale:<br />
<table border="2" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 213px;">
<colgroup><col style="mso-width-alt: 1389; mso-width-source: userset; width: 29pt;" width="38"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 1828; mso-width-source: userset; width: 38pt;" width="50"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 1901; mso-width-source: userset; width: 39pt;" width="52"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 2669; mso-width-source: userset; width: 55pt;" width="73"></col>
</colgroup><tbody>
<tr height="60" style="height: 45.0pt;">
<td class="xl63" height="60" style="height: 45.0pt; width: 29pt;" width="38"><b>Size</b></td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; width: 38pt;" width="50"><b>Weight when full
(g)</b></td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; width: 39pt;" width="52"><b>Weight when full
(g)</b></td>
<td style="width: 55pt;" width="73"></td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl63" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;">4 oz</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">213</td>
<td class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl63" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;">8 oz</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">376</td>
<td class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl63" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;">16 oz</td>
<td class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"></td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">622</td>
<td class="xl63"><b>Difference</b></td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl63" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt;"><b>Total</b></td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">589</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">622</td>
<td align="right" class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>33</b></td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
The difference between carrying 16 oz of fuel vs. 12 is only 33 g (1.2 oz) because of the weight of the canisters. The weights between brands of canisters may vary, but these weights should be illustrative. So, carrying 4 oz less in fuel saves me only about 1 oz in actual weight because of those darned steel canisters.<br />
<br />
But what if I custom fill an empty 16 oz canister with 12 oz of fuel? The weight of the canister <i>does not change</i>, and any reduction in fuel equates to an actual one-to-one reduction in weight<i>. </i>If I <i>fill</i> with 4 oz less of fuel (113 g), I <i>carry</i> 4 oz less pack weight. Yes, a bit of fuss to save a quarter pound, but remember that if the average backpacker (who carries something like 80 to 100 items in their backpack) could save just 2 oz on average per item, their pack would weigh on the order of <i>ten pounds</i> less overall<i>.</i> Ounces are worth shaving wherever you can. And if you're already using the G-Works adapter to pay the 440 g rate for 110 g canisters, why not not save a few ounces of pack weight while you're at it?<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Caution!</span></b><br />
Refilling canisters could be dangerous, very dangerous. I'm talking about permanent injury, loss of eyesight, disfigurement, and even death. <br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VaUOIDYSAPs/Tp9DLMuytSI/AAAAAAAAEMs/PYKEz2Wb9H4/s400/Skull_and_crossbones.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="320" src="https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VaUOIDYSAPs/Tp9DLMuytSI/AAAAAAAAEMs/PYKEz2Wb9H4/s320/Skull_and_crossbones.png" width="320" /></a></div>
<br />
You will note that I am not a lawyer. I don't work for any company that could get sued here. I'm not some ninny in an office who doesn't give a dang about whether you live or die in the back country so long as his company can't be sued. I am just a fellow lover of the wilderness. Any warning I give you is realistic and sober. My warnings are not overblown silliness as are so many of today's legal warnings. I'm giving it to you straight. If you ignore me, you're a dumb ass, and I have little sympathy for you. Don't come crying to me if you didn't heed my warnings.<br />
<br />
In my <u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2012/01/gas-canister-refilling.html" target="_blank">original post on refilling gas canisters</a></u>, I listed a series of precautions. <b><i>Read my <u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2012/01/gas-canister-refilling.html" target="_blank">original post</a></u></i></b> on refilling gas canisters if you are thinking about refilling canisters of your own. Please do your homework before you try something like this. If you do try this, there's a certain danger to it, no matter what. You're working with highly flammable, explosive gasses. You've been warned.<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><b>Transfer from Like to Like</b></span><br />
Not all canisters are created equal. Some are stronger than others. When you take canister gas from one canister and transfer it into another, you want to make sure that the receiving canister can handle the resultant pressure. The ideal way to do this is to "stay within the brand." By "within the brand," I mean transferring Jetboil to Jetboil, Primus to Primus, etc. If you transfer gas from a larger canister to a smaller canister of the same brand, you already know that the smaller canister can handle the pressure from that blend of gas. Note: Some companies, Primus in particular, have different blends: Summer blend, winter blend, etc. For companies with different blends, use a donor canister of the same blend as the receiving canister originally held. <br />
<br />
If you can't find a donor canister of the same brand as your receiving canister, you can check on the company's website what blend (percentages of propane, isobutane, and n-butane) the canisters held to insure compatibility, but it's best to stay within the brand if you can. Note that some companies do not publish their blend's percentages and that percentages can change over time.<br />
<br />
Basically though, if you <i><b>transfer from like to like</b></i>, you minimize the risk that the receiving canister can't handle the pressure.<br />
<br />
<b style="font-size: x-large;">The Procedure</b><br />
Custom filling/refilling is actually fairly simple. I'll list the instructions below.<br />
<br />
Before you start, <i>weigh the empty canister.</i> The weight of the canister + the amount of gas the canister originally contained is the maximum safe total weight of the canister. For example, if your receiving canister weighs 116 g when empty and originally held 220 g of fuel, then your maximum safe weight is <b>336 g </b>(116 + 220 = 336<b>)</b>. The amount of fuel your empty canister originally held should be printed on the label of the canister. If you can't read the label, get a different canister. <b>Only use canisters in good condition when refilling.</b><br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjflgW_U5MY6qVrdmpS7CuuxA8mzsrZBxrfQtg9kG3CUCTL0u4y3TWBSaOURDultnaB8nPAGwx7mNRPOnVHieenP0B7TQX7AlTyHE_MzaspdoJ_mQx6OAGqcOPmd5gloN8b9au-YjN9yDQ/s1600/IMG_7301%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjflgW_U5MY6qVrdmpS7CuuxA8mzsrZBxrfQtg9kG3CUCTL0u4y3TWBSaOURDultnaB8nPAGwx7mNRPOnVHieenP0B7TQX7AlTyHE_MzaspdoJ_mQx6OAGqcOPmd5gloN8b9au-YjN9yDQ/s640/IMG_7301%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">My receiving canister weighs 116 g when empty.</td></tr>
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Once you've calculated your maximum safe total weight, do the following:<br />
1. Place the donor canister into a pan or pot of warm water. I said <i>warm</i> water, not hot water. Do <i>not</i> immerse a canister into hot water. Hot water could cause the internal pressure of the canister to exceed the rating of the canister which could cause the canister to burst. Do not put the canister in the pan while the pan is on a stove. What if you left the stove on for a minute and got distracted? Take the pot off the stove, and <i>then</i> put the canister into the warm (not hot!) water.<br />
2. Prepare an ice bath in a container that can hold the recipient canister and some water with ice. You don't want the level of the water to exceed the height of the canister. Keep the connector and Lindal valve area of the canister dry.<br />
3. Close the valve on the G-Works Gas Saver adapter.<br />
4. Screw on the empty receiving canister to the Gas Saver.<br />
5. Take the donor canister out of the warm water, dry it off, and screw the donor on to the other connector on the Gas Saver.<br />
6. Place the receiving canister into the ice bath taking care to keep water out of the connector and Lindal valve area.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEifxvemMq4th89_ZR4SHmUf5HYeG06msrgj3IovCfjMJIvF_oylD8Ld2cUs6qmDzSQpLgDtUeLet2oufmnDiajTnrAOmNuatg1z5URVeydsKlgu8S-A2IkK1azmD8VF2c_RNM6A270BylQ/s1600/IMG_7300%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEifxvemMq4th89_ZR4SHmUf5HYeG06msrgj3IovCfjMJIvF_oylD8Ld2cUs6qmDzSQpLgDtUeLet2oufmnDiajTnrAOmNuatg1z5URVeydsKlgu8S-A2IkK1azmD8VF2c_RNM6A270BylQ/s640/IMG_7300%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">A G-Works Gas Saver properly hooked up with two canisters.<br />
The donor canister is on top. The receiving canister is on the bottom, in the ice bath.<br />
Take care to keep water out of the connector and Lindal valve area of the receiving canister.</td></tr>
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7. Open the valve on the Gas Saver.<br />
<br />
When you open the valve on the Gas Saver, you should hear gas flowing from the full donor canister into the empty receiving canister. <br />
<br />
8. After you've let it run for a minute or so, close the valve, take the receiving canister off the G-Works adapter, and weigh the receiving canister. While you're weighing the receiving canister, put the donor canister back into the pan of warm (not hot!) water. Repeat steps 6, 7, and 8 until the receiving canister is full. Do <i>not</i> exceed the maximum safe fill weight of the canister. <br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi4FkKeH4inFVKuqspJ9TloVVy6vPI4SqtD6C5tOBTR9DqJXT4kE-MheJ3HE3R809oQ4W95x6XM8-S3_eNxQlNzyC5cs7ufgv8SOB7bQN-azjR1cp6LtH_VG-L9TCDDlkwMDoNaSg3QetE/s1600/IMG_7303%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi4FkKeH4inFVKuqspJ9TloVVy6vPI4SqtD6C5tOBTR9DqJXT4kE-MheJ3HE3R809oQ4W95x6XM8-S3_eNxQlNzyC5cs7ufgv8SOB7bQN-azjR1cp6LtH_VG-L9TCDDlkwMDoNaSg3QetE/s640/IMG_7303%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Success! My canister which weighed only 116 g when empty is now clearly full of gas,<br />
BUT my maximum safe fill weight is 336 g. I need to vent or burn off 10 g.</td></tr>
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If you've over filled the canister, vent the canister outdoors away from any heat sources or open flame using the G-Works Gas Saver with one end attached to the over full canister and the other end not attached to anything. When there is no canister attached to the other end, opening the valve on the Gas Saver vents the excess gas into the atmosphere. Alternatively, you can just attach a stove to the over filled canister and burn off the fuel. <br />
<br />
That's really all there is to it. With the above described techniques and the G-Works Gas Saver, you can refill or custom fill smaller, lighter, more convenient canisters using larger, cheaper (per gram) canisters. <br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Versions</span></b><br />
There are actually several versions of this adapter, all from Peakway.<br />
1) The old version of the basic adapter – 28 g (1.0 oz)<br />
2) The new version of the basic adapter – 36 g (1.3 oz)<br />
3) The "fancy" version with what appears to be a pressure relief valve. I don't have this version and can't really comment on it.<br />
<br />
I'm not sure why they switched from the old version of the basic adapter to the new version. I can see what has changed, but I don't know the thinking behind the changes. Perhaps it was just to reduce production costs; I don't know.<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Concluding Remarks</span></b><br />
Be safe and <b>read all the cautions</b>, please. This is good stuff, but you do need to be careful.<br />
<br />
Take care and happy stoving,<br />
<br />
HJ<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><b>Appendix I – </b></span><b style="font-size: x-large;">Custom Fuel Blends </b><b style="font-size: x-large;">– DANGER</b><br />
<b>Danger</b>. We now depart from anything that might be considered remotely safe. You're completely on your own here if you do this. I'm <i>not</i> recommending this to you; I'm just saying it's physically possible. Just because you <i>can</i> do something doesn't mean that you <i>should</i>. I have <i>not</i> done this. It's just too danged dangerous. Try it at your own risk. And make sure your Life Insurance is all paid up, if you get my drift. See photos of canister explosions, below. <br />
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<br />
What am I talking about? Well, remember my recent post on the other G-Works adapter, <u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/01/the-g-works-adapter-100-propane-for.html" target="_blank">the G-Works<i> Propane</i> adapter</a></u>? With that propane adapter and the G-Works gas saver adapter combined, you could add propane to a backpacking canister. <br />
<i style="font-size: x-large;"><b>Never</b></i><span style="font-size: large;"> fill a backpacking gas canister with 100% propane. </span><br />
<br />
<b>WARNINGS UPDATE, 8 April 2017</b>: David, a chemical engineer, has left a series of remarks down in the comments section, below. I suggest that you read them <i>in detail</i> if you're thinking of adding extra propane to a backpacking type canister. Personally, I don't think you should try to add propane, but if you're going to try it, make sure you read, line by line, David's comments, below.<br />
<div>
<br /></div>
Why would you add propane to a backpacking canister? Well, for cold weather. Recall that propane is your best fuel for cold weather. In the US, the most propane content you can get in a backpacking canister is about 25% or 30% depending on whether it's mixed with isobutane or n-butane. You could boost that percentage to 35% or 40% if you combine the G-Works propane adapter with the Gas Saver adapter. No, I don't have any photos of this combination. <b><i>This is very dangerous</i></b> and I have <i>not</i> tried it.<br />
<br />
If you do add additional propane to your backpacking canisters, add the propane <i>last</i>. Why? Well, if you add propane to an empty canister, then, at least for a while, you've got 100% propane in there. That could be bad, very bad. Those little lightweight (comparatively) backpacking canisters cannot handle the high pressure of 100% propane. <b>DON'T DO IT.</b> I'm not sure you should add propane to a backpacking canister at all, but if you do, add the propane last, after the canister has a factory blended fuel mix in it.<br />
<i style="font-size: x-large;"><b>Never</b></i><span style="font-size: large;"> fill a backpacking gas canister with 100% propane. </span><br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjwiU8rvu5DtnmJFiqnY5uFEWQWY0tUeI5u5mVJnsZXo8Py09bF9ikZR0QBpoakR5lN6R-s9s-H0DFNobz8EwTH4SAsEIYOG6CQpenr6spVh55WkhmyFoT83NwaVJ6MyYfQfd2KgzWsB78/s1600/IMG_5627%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="582" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjwiU8rvu5DtnmJFiqnY5uFEWQWY0tUeI5u5mVJnsZXo8Py09bF9ikZR0QBpoakR5lN6R-s9s-H0DFNobz8EwTH4SAsEIYOG6CQpenr6spVh55WkhmyFoT83NwaVJ6MyYfQfd2KgzWsB78/s640/IMG_5627%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">A stove and pot destroyed by a canister filled with 100% propane.<br />
Note how the canister has burst.<br />
<b>NEVER</b> fill a backpacking type canister with 100% propane.</td></tr>
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Backpacking canisters are only strong enough for partial propane mixes, typically 80/20 isobutane/propane or 70/30 n-butane/propane. Filling a backpacking canister with 100% propane risks an explosion. Backpacking canisters just aren't strong enough to handle the very high pressures involved with 100% propane. <br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><b><i>Never</i></b> fill a backpacking gas canister with 100% propane.</span><br />
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<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">A stove and pot destroyed by a canister explosion.<br />
<b style="font-size: 12.8px;">NEVER</b><span style="font-size: 12.8px;"> fill a backpacking type canister with 100% propane.</span></td></tr>
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Hikin' Jimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.com29tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-31024783051577567992017-03-25T20:24:00.001-07:002017-05-09T18:03:50.735-07:00Coleman Gas Canisters – Emergency Work-AroundRecently, I issued a <u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/03/coleman-canister-gas-caution.html" target="_blank">Caution on Coleman Canisters</a></u>. The latest Coleman canisters, those with an orange label on top of the canister <i>can</i> have trouble with other brands of stoves. Jetboil and Primus stoves generally work with the orange label Coleman canisters, but the results are mixed with other brands. For example, I tested an MSR Pocket Rocket, and it didn't work for me, but someone else tested the same stove and it worked fine for them.<br />
<br />
So, what happens if you have a non-Coleman stove, need a canister, and the only brand available in a given area is Coleman? There is an <i>emergency</i> work around. Note the use of the word "emergency." This is for when you're in a real jam and the lack of a stove may get you seriously injured or killed. This is not for convenience or when you are merely hungry. This could be dangerous. Use in times of desperation only. You can stick a very small pebble in the valve opening, hopefully a really smooth one that won't jam open the Lindal valve in the neck of the canister. Better still is some small ball bearing or the like which is less likely to jam open the valve than a pebble. <i>This is to be used only if you just have no other options, </i>and even then I recommend against it unless you're going to get frostbite or hypothermia or something. This is not something to be taken lightly. Gas is highly flammable and explosive<i>.</i> You're totally on your own if you do this. Your warranty is void. You can't sue the stove manufacturer. You can't sue the canister manufacturer. You can't sue me; I've already told you <i>this is dangerous.</i><br />
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<b><span style="font-size: large;">WARNING</span></b><br />
<b>Read every word in detail of this post or don't read any of it.</b> This describes a last resort, a potentially very dangerous last resort. Don't do this if you're not good mechanically, if you're not meticulous, or if you're not familiar with working with canister gas stoves. <i>This is to be used only if you just have no other options, </i>and even then I recommend against it unless you're going to get frostbite or hypothermia or something. <br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Example</span></b><br />
Here's an example: I couldn't get my nice, shiny, new MSR Pocket Rocket 2 to work with a Coleman orange label canister. No way was I going to crank down hard on the stove; that's a good way to ruin the threads on your stove. A friend sent me a small baggie of #7 shot. I put a piece of the shot into the opening of the Lindal valve.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgQop_0EBeLkUDH-hb3528XgUMbZkfQs_-RrP6S0UBXAga3U_Tm231YLanAtaPsU-7GBbbf9v5RW12X2SqkccSc_UtnxsR6r9a31p5j6WKmmnXFkSFMEDBdflas75Ot5WwrxxvgrCUGjTo/s1600/IMG_7293%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgQop_0EBeLkUDH-hb3528XgUMbZkfQs_-RrP6S0UBXAga3U_Tm231YLanAtaPsU-7GBbbf9v5RW12X2SqkccSc_UtnxsR6r9a31p5j6WKmmnXFkSFMEDBdflas75Ot5WwrxxvgrCUGjTo/s640/IMG_7293%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Placing a piece of #7 shot into the Lindal valve's opening</td></tr>
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I then pushed the shot down into the valve with an eyeglasses screw driver. A paper clip would probably also work.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEghfpfZBzbzXeh_SE44EYtiEionsyH9VI0hPM7vKIvk0g7q-T5oukhFIXWK25hJcN2MsHQ-oqMGPQT8NS06kY7TZNfsqrAhZsYn-MqzKVVt7ztcPR8lkzjCevPQy6i4QqKmFRASzx9yFXk/s1600/IMG_7295%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEghfpfZBzbzXeh_SE44EYtiEionsyH9VI0hPM7vKIvk0g7q-T5oukhFIXWK25hJcN2MsHQ-oqMGPQT8NS06kY7TZNfsqrAhZsYn-MqzKVVt7ztcPR8lkzjCevPQy6i4QqKmFRASzx9yFXk/s640/IMG_7295%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Pushing the shot down into the valve opening with an eyeglasses screw driver.</td></tr>
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I then screwed on the stove, and... Success!!<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjZJvcjj75xKJ-RdpO4WIO0YeSifCqr6SZexPHJ0PnI7EPdsspWHx3z577IBXOQ6TG9lZmcCds0Ne7bwJJbwMizQmU0J3Ejx1vlHafKOm-57lQGo0NnTht4v3M4IEZk2ySpw3BWuwVO5_E/s1600/IMG_7298%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjZJvcjj75xKJ-RdpO4WIO0YeSifCqr6SZexPHJ0PnI7EPdsspWHx3z577IBXOQ6TG9lZmcCds0Ne7bwJJbwMizQmU0J3Ejx1vlHafKOm-57lQGo0NnTht4v3M4IEZk2ySpw3BWuwVO5_E/s640/IMG_7298%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Success! A stove that heretofore would not work on a Coleman canister now works just fine.</td></tr>
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The shot acts as an extender on the pin of the stove. Whereas before the pin was too short, now, with the extension provided by the shot, the stove works fine.<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><b>Caution!</b></span><br />
Now that the pin is longer, the pin engages sooner. You <i>will </i>get more gas escaping when you screw on the stove than normal. I do NOT recommend this procedure, but, if you're stuck, you could try it as a <i>last resort</i>. Be aware that if you do this with a small pebble, the pebble could wedge into the valve. If the pebble wedges into the valve, when you screw the stove off, the gas will continue to flow! A bit scary, but no worries, just screw the stove back on. You'll have to hold the gas back with the valve of the stove, which is a royal pain in the neck, but what else are you going to do? Again, this is only something you should do as a <i>last resort</i><i>, </i>and even then I recommend against it unless you're going to get frostbite or hypothermia or something. In general: Do not buy Coleman canisters unless you're sure they'll work with your stove. <br />
<br />
Oh, and of course <span style="font-size: large;"><b><i>NEVER</i></b> change a gas canister near a heat source or open flame. </span>That could be, um, bad. Flames, burning, death, you know, bad. You don't want that; trust me.<br />
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<br />
<b style="font-size: x-large;">Danger!</b><br />
<b style="font-size: x-large;"><i>DO NOT</i> </b>light your stove if you hear gas hissing. When you screw on your stove, make sure you get a good seal. If you hear gas hissing, even the slightest amount, do not use that canister.<br />
<br />
<br />
So, there you have it, an emergency (only!) fix. <i>This is to be used only if you just have no other options</i><i>, </i>and even then I recommend against it unless you're going to get frostbite or hypothermia or something. <br />
<br />
Stay safe out there,<br />
<br />
HJHikin' Jimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.com14tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-71270239588100313862017-03-19T08:01:00.001-07:002017-05-09T17:57:56.229-07:00Coleman Canister Gas – CautionColeman brand gas canisters now only <i>normally</i> work with Coleman brand stoves. You might get lucky, but the current orange label Coleman brand gas canisters just plain don't work with a lot of brands of canister stoves.<br />
<b>UPDATE</b> 25 March 2017: See caveats to the above in the "Stoves Tested" section.<br />
<b>UPDATE</b> 27 March 2017: There is an emergency work-around: <b><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/03/coleman-canister-gas-fix.html" target="_blank">Coleman Canister Gas – Emergency Work-Around</a></u></b><br />
<b>UPDATE </b>28 March 2018: Since the Coleman canisters don't work reliably with the majority of my stoves, I'm now using them as "donor" canisters when I refill my canisters that do work. See: <u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/03/the-g-works-r1-gas-saver-refilling.html" target="_blank">Refilling Backpacking Canisters II</a></u><br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: large;">What has changed?</span><br />
I've never had this problem before with the older green label Coleman canisters. Recently, it seems there's been a change. The new ones have an orange label (see photo, below), but the changes appear to go beyond color. They just don't work with other brands of gas stoves. I'm speaking here about <i>backpacking </i>type canisters only. I am NOT referring to the big 100% propane green canisters.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgqyJsGkqn21QPocM9aGHFR9z-IbiNMANLSpi_ix-j9PVoQALVmi-hovmk4TkQBigA-Ym2O9iaWYFH1a1OlVAo1adQ1288ykMoKmQ7PxTGDdNjslveZK_VIw5K88lFHpj8BXy7nnU4sLgk/s1600/IMG_7263%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgqyJsGkqn21QPocM9aGHFR9z-IbiNMANLSpi_ix-j9PVoQALVmi-hovmk4TkQBigA-Ym2O9iaWYFH1a1OlVAo1adQ1288ykMoKmQ7PxTGDdNjslveZK_VIw5K88lFHpj8BXy7nnU4sLgk/s640/IMG_7263%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Front row: The older "green" Coleman canisters.<br />
Rear: The newer "orange" Coleman canister.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
Here's how I happened on this:<br />
I test stoves. A lot of stoves. I burn gas. A lot of gas. <br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgzkXun-a4aVj34fTxlHIMCSO4EjyIx7ICzsjwYpPJBRYG7U1tI40iUSWWUfSaE6R0bRQHXbz7jQ91f1Nk4FfnqGarWBa8Zr3O0tAQ5osBwXl6rHjSXRy4auiz4lB-cKlZBiEpvv0-Az1s/s1600/IMG_7233%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgzkXun-a4aVj34fTxlHIMCSO4EjyIx7ICzsjwYpPJBRYG7U1tI40iUSWWUfSaE6R0bRQHXbz7jQ91f1Nk4FfnqGarWBa8Zr3O0tAQ5osBwXl6rHjSXRy4auiz4lB-cKlZBiEpvv0-Az1s/s640/IMG_7233%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Simul-testing multiple stoves. I burn a lot of gas.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
So, I bought some of the big 450 gram Coleman canisters recently at Walmart. They're the cheapest brand (at least when bought at Walmart).<br />
<br />
When I got them home, they simply didn't work. On any stove tried (see list, below). And I've got a lot of stoves. None of them worked – until I tried a Coleman brand stove.<br />
<br />
Here's a quick video:<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<iframe allowfullscreen="" class="YOUTUBE-iframe-video" data-thumbnail-src="https://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAh4HMe2qhw/0.jpg" frameborder="0" height="566" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/kAh4HMe2qhw?feature=player_embedded" width="640"></iframe></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<br /></div>
And I am not alone. Others are reporting similar experiences.<br />
<br />
NOTE: I am <i>not </i>accusing Coleman of doing this deliberately. Why would they do that? They want to sell as many canisters as possible. If they make it so their canisters cannot be used with other brands, their sales will go down. I think this is a goof, not a deliberate business decision.<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><b>Stoves Tested</b></span><br />
<br />
These stoves did <i>not</i> work when tested with orange label Coleman gas canisters:<br />
<ul>
<li>MSR Pocket Rocket</li>
<li>MSR Pocket Rocket 2</li>
<li>BRS-3000T</li>
<li>Markill Hot Rod</li>
<li>Soto WindMaster</li>
<li>Kovea Supalite</li>
<li>Monatauk Gnat/FMS-116T/Olicamp Kinetic Ultra</li>
<li>Snow Peak GeoShield</li>
</ul>
<div>
These stoves <i>kind of</i> worked with orange label Coleman gas canisters cranked down hard (NOT recommended):<br />
<br />
<ul>
<li>Kovea Titanium/Markill Hotrod</li>
<li>Soto MicroRegulator</li>
<li>Optimus Crux</li>
</ul>
<br />
<div>
These stoves <i>did</i> work with orange label Coleman gas canisters:<br />
<ul>
<li>Jetboil PCS (personal experience)</li>
<li>Jetboil MiniMo (reported)</li>
<li>Primus Eta Express</li>
<li>MSR Micro Rocket</li>
<li>Soto Amicus</li>
<li>Snow Peak GigaPower</li>
<li>eTekCity (multiple reports)</li>
</ul>
</div>
It looks like Jetboil and Primus brand stoves in general <i>do</i> work with Coleman brand orange label gas canisters, but obviously I haven't tested each and every model of Jetboil or Primus stoves. You'll <i>probably </i>be fine, but you should test your Jetboil or Primus stove with Coleman canisters before you head out on the trail. <b>However, </b>I have now one report of a Jetboil not working with an orange label Coleman canister.<br />
<br />
Other brands are all over the map. Some models work; others do not. I've had reports of a Pocket Rocket working, but my Pocket Rocket did not. This tells me that the Coleman canisters are very close, only off by maybe half a millimeter or something like that. Their Lindal valve is recessed just a bit farther down in the threaded connector than other brands. It doesn't take much. Notice the middle category, above: Stoves that kind of worked. It's that close. Your "mileage" not only may but <i>will</i> vary.<br />
<br />
<b>Recommended</b>: Test your stove with Coleman orange label canisters if you plan to use them.<br />
<b><i>Not</i> recommended</b>: Cranking your stove down hard to get a Coleman canister to work. Stove threads are typically aluminum or brass which is softer than the steel of the canisters. Don't ruin a good stove over a $5 to $10 canister. Just buy a more reliable brand. I have had no problems with the following canister brands:<br />
<br />
<ul>
<li>MSR</li>
<li>Snow Peak</li>
<li>Optimus</li>
<li>Primus</li>
<li>Brunton</li>
<li>Jetboil</li>
<li>Gas One</li>
<li>Glow Master</li>
</ul>
<div>
I haven't tried Olicamp canisters; I haven't seen them for sale locally.</div>
<div>
<br /></div>
</div>
<span style="font-size: large;">Conclusion</span><br />
So, be careful. That Coleman canister may be cheap (when purchased at Walmart), but it may not work with your stove – unless your stove happens to be a Coleman stove (or <i>probably</i> Jetboil and Primus, perhaps others). Perhaps I'm belaboring the obvious, but always test your stove with the canister you intend to use <i>before</i> you hit the trail. This is probably a good idea with all brands but particularly with Coleman brand orange label gas canisters.<br />
<br />
Happy stoving,<br />
<br />
HJHikin' Jimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.com35tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-85204043357446856552017-03-18T08:58:00.000-07:002017-04-07T13:02:52.134-07:00Upright (Top Mounted) Canister Stoves – the State of the Art<br />
What are the best upright (top mounted) canister gas stoves of today? What are our options? What's the best technology?<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhODjsDwkRtGkBlHFhrDpFTYhWVpdT2SBjFBNkf0Gt1FFV-uuHKVJRf_pPGejG2tkvr8iOmyLEroiGEwnLRDYBtHe3h6kL7tlYUvm6da9aj_XBlsW_FMOi4PEr5JJSxg9_3Fw2lWj-rSfA/s1600/IMG_5160.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhODjsDwkRtGkBlHFhrDpFTYhWVpdT2SBjFBNkf0Gt1FFV-uuHKVJRf_pPGejG2tkvr8iOmyLEroiGEwnLRDYBtHe3h6kL7tlYUvm6da9aj_XBlsW_FMOi4PEr5JJSxg9_3Fw2lWj-rSfA/s640/IMG_5160.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The latest from MSR: The new <u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2016/12/review-new-msr-pocket-rocket-2.html" target="_blank">Pocket Rocket 2</a></u></td></tr>
</tbody></table>
I've got a friend who works over at Massdrop*. He's been bugging me to do a stove article, a sort of taking stock of the current state of canister stoves. Kind of a fun project, so what the heck, I wrote a little something up: <u><a href="https://www.massdrop.com/talk/1404/upright-canister-stoves-the-state-of-the-art" target="_blank">Upright Canister Stoves – the State of the Art</a></u>. <br />
<br />
This post here on my blog has something that I couldn't include in the article, a dynamic HTML version of the chart in the article; see below. <b>NOTE: The version of the chart on Massdrop is downloadable<i>.</i></b><br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh-8K8Ce00PuZ83S1ECKY27F0FlDPql_zEsl1f3wC9xv2B2BDwTnahyPSJsarxgImi_cxenR1eKy-Ixol2wudLc6B4izraZ70pUMw02CVrmpHq3VnCw2XsrjWnm16tLY3ok-3FxUmVNqjA/s1600/P1070225.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh-8K8Ce00PuZ83S1ECKY27F0FlDPql_zEsl1f3wC9xv2B2BDwTnahyPSJsarxgImi_cxenR1eKy-Ixol2wudLc6B4izraZ70pUMw02CVrmpHq3VnCw2XsrjWnm16tLY3ok-3FxUmVNqjA/s640/P1070225.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">A classic old Hank Roberts stove.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
I created a table of upright canister stoves available in the US today. I've got pretty much all the major brands and even some that are less well known. I didn't get everything, but it's a pretty representative compendium. <br />
<br />
I didn't have a way to create a dynamic HTML table over on Massdrop, so I thought I'd create one here. It may be easier to read this dynamic HTML table, depending on what type of device you're viewing things on. Neither method of presentation is perfect, but hopefully one or the other gets the job done for you. To see this as a jpg image, refer to my full article: <u><a href="https://www.massdrop.com/talk/1404/upright-canister-stoves-the-state-of-the-art" target="_blank">Upright Canister Stoves – the State of the Art</a></u>. Generally, <b><i>mobile devices do better with a jpg image</i></b>.<br />
<table border="2" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 1129px;">
<colgroup><col style="mso-width-alt: 1938; mso-width-source: userset; width: 40pt;" width="53"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 4900; mso-width-source: userset; width: 101pt;" width="134"></col>
<col span="2" style="mso-width-alt: 1462; mso-width-source: userset; width: 30pt;" width="40"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 1645; mso-width-source: userset; width: 34pt;" width="45"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 1426; mso-width-source: userset; width: 29pt;" width="39"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 1316; mso-width-source: userset; width: 27pt;" width="42"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 8850; mso-width-source: userset; width: 182pt;" width="242"></col>
<col span="2" style="mso-width-alt: 9142; mso-width-source: userset; width: 188pt;" width="250"></col>
</colgroup><tbody>
<tr height="16" style="height: 12.0pt;">
<td class="xl73" colspan="10" height="16" style="height: 12.0pt; width: 849pt;" width="1129"><div style="text-align: center;">
Adventures In Stoving --
https://AdventuresInStoving.blogspot.com</div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr height="16" style="height: 12.0pt;">
<td class="xl64" height="16" style="border-top: none; height: 12.0pt; width: 40pt;" width="53">Brand</td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 101pt;" width="134">Stove</td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">BTU</td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">Grams</td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 34pt;" width="45">Oz's</td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="39">Class</td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 27pt;" width="42">$$'s</td><td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 182pt;" width="242">Pros</td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Cons</td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Comments</td>
</tr>
<tr height="45" style="height: 33.75pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="45" style="border-top: none; height: 33.75pt; width: 40pt;" width="53">BRS</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 101pt;" width="134">BRS-3000T</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">9,200</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">25</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 34pt;" width="45">0.9</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="42">SUL</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 27pt;" width="36">$20 </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 182pt;" width="242">Super
Ultralight, compact, inexpensive</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Terrible
in wind, pot supports can deform if overheated (inconsistent quality
control), poor pot stability, short valve handle</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Poor
pot stability, but dang is it light, compact, and cheap. The only Super Ultra Light canister stove
on the market.</td>
</tr>
<tr height="30" style="height: 22.5pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="30" style="border-top: none; height: 22.5pt; width: 40pt;" width="53">Fire Maple</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 101pt;" width="134">FMS-300T
(Olicamp Ion Micro)</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">8,900</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">45</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 34pt;" width="45">1.6</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="42">UL</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 27pt;" width="36">$50 </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 182pt;" width="242">Ultralight,
compact</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Open
burner, poor pot stability, short valve handle, loud</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Limited
pot stability, a bit loud. Sold under
Olicamp brand in US. Cheaper on Amazon
or eBay.</td>
</tr>
<tr height="45" style="height: 33.75pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="45" style="border-top: none; height: 33.75pt; width: 40pt;" width="53">Fire Maple</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 101pt;" width="134">FMS-116T
(Olicamp Kinetic Ultra)</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">9,600</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">48</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 34pt;" width="45">1.7</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="42">UL</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 27pt;" width="36">$50 </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 182pt;" width="242">Ultralight. Good pot stability. Well distributed flame avoids hot spots</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Open
burner, not particularly compact</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">A
little more distributed flame than some UL stoves. Sold under Olicamp brand in US. Cheaper on Amazon or eBay.</td>
</tr>
<tr height="45" style="height: 33.75pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="45" style="border-top: none; height: 33.75pt; width: 40pt;" width="53">Snow Peak</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 101pt;" width="134">Lite
Max</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">11,200</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">54</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 34pt;" width="45">1.9</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="42">UL</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 27pt;" width="36">$60 </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 182pt;" width="242">Ultralight,
compact, low carbon monoxide</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Open
burner</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Surprisingly
compact. Good pot stability. At 11,000 BTU/hr it can really eat fuel if
you let it. Turn it down. Made by
Kovea.</td>
</tr>
<tr height="30" style="height: 22.5pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="30" style="border-top: none; height: 22.5pt; width: 40pt;" width="53">Kovea</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 101pt;" width="134">Supalite</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">6,575</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">56</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 34pt;" width="45">2.0</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="42">Light</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 27pt;" width="36">$50 </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 182pt;" width="242">Light,
very compact, low carbon monoxide</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Open
burner</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Surprisingly
compact. Good pot stability. Some variants are 56 g; others are 60
g. Made by Kovea.</td>
</tr>
<tr height="45" style="height: 33.75pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="45" style="border-top: none; height: 33.75pt; width: 40pt;" width="53">Soto</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 101pt;" width="134">WindMaster</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">11,000</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">67</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 34pt;" width="45">2.4</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="42">Light</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 27pt;" width="36">$75 </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 182pt;" width="242">Wind
resistant, excellent build quality, sophisticated ignition, regulated burner,
good to excellent pot stability. </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Detachable
pot support can be lost, tall (not compact), pricey, but there are deals out
there.</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Great
stove. Best upright canister stove on
the market today -- if you can live with the detachable pot support. </td>
</tr>
<tr height="45" style="height: 33.75pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="45" style="border-top: none; height: 33.75pt; width: 40pt;" width="53">GSI</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 101pt;" width="134">Pinnacle</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">8,750</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">68</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 34pt;" width="45">2.4</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="42">Light</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 27pt;" width="36">$50 </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 182pt;" width="242">Seems
reasonably well made.</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">A
little over priced for its class. Open
burner.</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">I
haven't really seen this one in person, but I've seen some talk on the net; I
therefore include it for completeness.</td>
</tr>
<tr height="16" style="height: 12.0pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="16" style="border-top: none; height: 12.0pt; width: 40pt;" width="53">Optimus</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 101pt;" width="134">Crux
Lite</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">10,200</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">72</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 34pt;" width="45">2.5</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="42">Light</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 27pt;" width="36">$40 </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 182pt;" width="242">Lighter
than the regular Crux</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Bulky,
open burner</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Doesn't
pack well because burner doesn't fold.</td>
</tr>
<tr height="30" style="height: 22.5pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="30" style="border-top: none; height: 22.5pt; width: 40pt;" width="53">MSR</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 101pt;" width="134">Pocket
Rocket 2</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">8,200</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">73</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 34pt;" width="45">2.6</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="39">Light</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 27pt;" width="36">$45 </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 182pt;" width="242">Simple,
solid, improved pot stability</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Open
burner</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">I
really like it's simplicity and how solid it is. Made by Kovea.</td>
</tr>
<tr height="30" style="height: 22.5pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="30" style="border-top: none; height: 22.5pt; width: 40pt;" width="53">Soto</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 101pt;" width="134">MicroRegulator</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">11,000</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">73</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 34pt;" width="45">2.6</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="39">Light</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 27pt;" width="36">$70 </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 182pt;" width="242">Excellent
build quality, sophisticated ignition, regulated burner.</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Somewhat
floppy pot supports; open burner.</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Nice
stove, but I would go with the WindMaster if you're looking at this type of
stove.</td>
</tr>
<tr height="45" style="height: 33.75pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="45" style="border-top: none; height: 33.75pt; width: 40pt;" width="53">Soto</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 101pt;" width="134">Amicus
(manual, piezoelectric). Add $5 for
piezo</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">10,200</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">75</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 34pt;" width="45">2.6</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="39">Light</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 27pt;" width="36">$40 </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 182pt;" width="242">Wind
resistant, excellent build quality, sophisticated ignition, excellent pot
stability.</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Slightly
bulky when compared to the most compact.</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">A
really fabulous new entry from Soto at a nice price point. The wind resistance is real. Definitely worth a look.</td>
</tr>
<tr height="45" style="height: 33.75pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="45" style="border-top: none; height: 33.75pt; width: 40pt;" width="53">Primus</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 101pt;" width="134">Express
(manual, piezoelectric). Add $10 for
piezo.</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">8,900</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">82</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 34pt;" width="45">2.9</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="39">Light</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 27pt;" width="36">$45 </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 182pt;" width="242">Good
build quality. Excellent pot stability.</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Open
burner. Pot supports do not fold out
of the way and take up a lot of room.
Not the best piezo.</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Primus
makes good stuff, but I think their Express stove is a little heavy for what
it is.</td>
</tr>
<tr height="45" style="height: 33.75pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="45" style="border-top: none; height: 33.75pt; width: 40pt;" width="53">Snow Peak</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 101pt;" width="134">Gigapower
(manual, piezoelectric). Add $10 for
piezo.</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">10,000</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">85</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 34pt;" width="45">3.0</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="39">Mid</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 27pt;" width="36">$40 </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 182pt;" width="242">Good
pot stability, compact, strong, low carbon monoxide</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Heavier,
open burner. Poor ignition.</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">A
classic, fantastic stove albeit a bit heavy by today's standards. The ignition sucks; get the version
without. Made by Kovea.</td>
</tr>
<tr height="16" style="height: 12.0pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="16" style="border-top: none; height: 12.0pt; width: 40pt;" width="53">Olicamp</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 101pt;" width="134">Vector</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">10,200</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">85</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 34pt;" width="45">3.0</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="39">Mid</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 27pt;" width="36">$30 </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 182pt;" width="242">Reasonalby
priced</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Open
burner</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Included
as a low cost option.</td>
</tr>
<tr height="16" style="height: 12.0pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="16" style="border-top: none; height: 12.0pt; width: 40pt;" width="53">Kovea</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 101pt;" width="134">Titanium</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">7,600</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">88</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 34pt;" width="45">3.1</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="39">Mid</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 27pt;" width="36">$60 </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 182pt;" width="242">Reasonably
compact</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Poor
quality ignition, open burner.</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Ignition
isn't particularly reliable.</td>
</tr>
<tr height="30" style="height: 22.5pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="30" style="border-top: none; height: 22.5pt; width: 40pt;" width="53">Optimus</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 101pt;" width="134">Crux</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">10,200</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">93</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 34pt;" width="45">3.3</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="39">Mid</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 27pt;" width="36">$50 </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 182pt;" width="242">Fairly
compact</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Heavier,
wobbles at joint, open burner, open burner</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Nice
stove, but it would be great if it didn't wiggle at the joint.</td>
</tr>
<tr height="45" style="height: 33.75pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="45" style="border-top: none; height: 33.75pt; width: 40pt;" width="53">Jetboil</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 101pt;" width="134">Mighty
Mo</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">10,000</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">95</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 34pt;" width="45">3.4</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="39">Mid</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 27pt;" width="36">$50 </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 182pt;" width="242">Regulated
burner</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Poor
quality ignition, only fair pot stability, open burner</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Lowest
cost regulated burner, but the ignition is crappy. Soto's stoves in this class are better but
more expensive.</td>
</tr>
<tr height="16" style="height: 12.0pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="16" style="border-top: none; height: 12.0pt; width: 40pt;" width="53">Kovea</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 101pt;" width="134">Power
Nano</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">7,300</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">95</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 34pt;" width="45">3.4</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="39">Mid</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 27pt;" width="36">$35 </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 182pt;" width="242">Inexpensive</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Heavy
for its class. Open burner</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250"></td>
</tr>
<tr height="16" style="height: 12.0pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="16" style="border-top: none; height: 12.0pt; width: 40pt;" width="53">Kovea</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 101pt;" width="134">Eagle</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">6,000</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">128</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 34pt;" width="45">4.5</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="39">Heavy</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 27pt;" width="36">$30 </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 182pt;" width="242">Inexpensive</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Heavy
for its class. Open burner</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250"></td>
</tr>
<tr height="30" style="height: 22.5pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="30" style="border-top: none; height: 22.5pt; width: 40pt;" width="53">MSR</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 101pt;" width="134">Super
Fly (manual, piezo). Add $10 for
piezo.</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">10,000</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">177</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 34pt;" width="45">6.2</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="39">Heavy</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 27pt;" width="36">$65 </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 182pt;" width="242">Distributed
flame, threaded and non-threaded canisters</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Heavy,
bulky, sharp, pointy pot supports, open burner</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Dislike. Too big, too bulky, too heavy, and the
pointy pot supports poke holes in your pack.</td>
</tr>
<tr height="30" style="height: 22.5pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="30" style="border-top: none; height: 22.5pt; width: 40pt;" width="53">Primus</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 101pt;" width="134">Classic
Trail (Yellowstone)</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">10,000</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 30pt;" width="40">227</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 34pt;" width="45">8.0</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="39">Heavy</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 27pt;" width="36">$20 </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 182pt;" width="242">Inexpensive</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Heavy,
bulky, open burner</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 188pt;" width="250">Cheap,
good pot stability, can handle larger pots, but I'm not a fan of this heavy
beast.</td>
</tr>
<tr height="16" style="height: 12.0pt;">
<td class="xl73" colspan="10" height="16" style="height: 12.0pt; width: 849pt;" width="1129"><div style="text-align: center;">
Adventures In Stoving --
https://AdventuresInStoving.blogspot.com</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
I hope you find the information useful.<br />
<br />
HJ<br />
<br />
*Massdrop, if you haven't heard of it, is sort of a "group buy" site. They contact companies and basically say "hey, if we could get X number of sales, would you give us a price break?" If a company agrees, Massdrop then posts a "Drop" on their site. Members of the public can then join the Drop and get a group discount. Here's a link: <u><a href="https://www.massdrop.com/r/ETFBT7">https://www.massdrop.com/r/ETFBT7</a></u>. I think I get a free T shirt or something if enough people click on that link and then later buy something, but whatever. I hope you find a couple of good deals.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-7gF2Zq0bW8s/S7U1fHd_7hI/AAAAAAAA1fg/Mkzy-k-qxloTF69uSpjoEDaGGuKTnbypQCPcB/s1600/IMGP0375.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-7gF2Zq0bW8s/S7U1fHd_7hI/AAAAAAAA1fg/Mkzy-k-qxloTF69uSpjoEDaGGuKTnbypQCPcB/s640/IMGP0375.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">An old Camping Gaz S-206 "Bleuet" stove.<br />
The canister had to be physically punctured and could not be safely removed until empty.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />Hikin' Jimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.com18tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-15526429776941045252017-03-05T17:14:00.000-08:002017-03-05T20:02:05.182-08:00BRS-3000T – Failure #3Since the pot supports failed on my BRS-3000T, a number of people have come forward saying that they have experienced the same thing. I thought I'd post a couple more photos, below; the photos are from John H. John reports that he had good results with the stove at first but that over time the pot supports deformed.<br />
<br />
Links:<br />
<ul>
<li><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/02/the-brs-3000t-worlds-lightest-stove.html" target="_blank">BRS-3000T Review</a></u></li>
<li><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/03/brs-3000t-failure-2.html" target="_blank">BRS-3000T Failure #2</a></u></li>
<li><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/03/brs-3000t-another-failure.html" target="_blank">BRS-3000T Failure #3</a></u></li>
</ul>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgJ3Hp6kOykE79eIUIY427ThKbA5r3DFjLauCu0I_Unj1vnf6hLH3AMeP1OkbVndC6gSBg0yQwTMVSFUbflfpvFR0gzAxhhwN4q7eDVo0drY41o61jyv0guj1dW23HdK1_yM9oEQ597_cg/s1600/BRS-3000T_Failure3a.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgJ3Hp6kOykE79eIUIY427ThKbA5r3DFjLauCu0I_Unj1vnf6hLH3AMeP1OkbVndC6gSBg0yQwTMVSFUbflfpvFR0gzAxhhwN4q7eDVo0drY41o61jyv0guj1dW23HdK1_yM9oEQ597_cg/s640/BRS-3000T_Failure3a.jpg" width="612" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="font-size: 12.8px;">Note how the pot supports have twisted out and away from the stove.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
Notice that these photos are pretty much the same as the first set and also the second set. In other words, the same thing appears to be happening repeatedly.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjh4GkDf1tIdLf1gf7B9EW_prj25bhCOT8wcG0gNoprQI4RCcfPiTC25CgkRDpLsdu_KZ3VnPBRItapWDW9xmtiBehRoN58uEDy0UT_K-Z8bWMZedLWPbEmK_Pekp5g1cyp2tYubQvLarc/s1600/BRS-3000T_Failure3b.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjh4GkDf1tIdLf1gf7B9EW_prj25bhCOT8wcG0gNoprQI4RCcfPiTC25CgkRDpLsdu_KZ3VnPBRItapWDW9xmtiBehRoN58uEDy0UT_K-Z8bWMZedLWPbEmK_Pekp5g1cyp2tYubQvLarc/s640/BRS-3000T_Failure3b.jpg" width="292" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="font-size: 12.8px;">It's not a gross failure, but the pot clearly cants off to one side.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
BUT there are plenty of people who are experiencing no problems at all. Matt S. recently ran a 15 minute test on his (after seeing my post). No problems. Gary D. reports doing up to 20 minute runs while melting snow. That's a long run. No problems.<br />
<br />
Some people have a failure with only one cup of water on; others melt snow for 20 minutes and have no failure. It’s a hit or miss stove. You might get lucky and get one that’s fine. You might not.<br />
<br />
I’m going to revise my original post to recommend a test run. Run the stove for 15 minutes on high with 2 cups of water on <i>before</i> taking it out on the trail for the first time. If your stove can handle a 15 minute run on high at home, then it's probably going to be OK out on the trail. If it fails at home, just buy another one. They're cheap enough. Eventually you should be able to get a good one. Of course you could just get a quality stove in the first place and be done with it, but each to his or her own.<br />
<br />
Some people have advocated carrying more than one BRS-3000T at a time. They're so light and so cheap, why not? If one stove fails, just swap it out for the one in your pack. If you decide to go the multiple stove route, maybe you should space out the purchases so that you get a stoves from different manufacturing lots. Hopefully the chances of getting two duds is minimized.<br />
<br />
HJ<br />
<br />
Another failure, this one reported by Terry S. who reports that the metal had become so soft with use that he could no longer depend on the stove.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh_RjUgPP1SZH_hEMvqrQr6lSEqsQGbTxkwTksdM0oPfvyZgOxGYDtfSsQ_IZhnSxFh75j26DS1u0lCRN4rsVhHGkFg1aUSNQ7bl19Axz5gCOT2kn0AyyXOaF7UWXBC0-QU0bS1xdE7fV8/s1600/BRS-3000T_Failure4.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="466" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh_RjUgPP1SZH_hEMvqrQr6lSEqsQGbTxkwTksdM0oPfvyZgOxGYDtfSsQ_IZhnSxFh75j26DS1u0lCRN4rsVhHGkFg1aUSNQ7bl19Axz5gCOT2kn0AyyXOaF7UWXBC0-QU0bS1xdE7fV8/s640/BRS-3000T_Failure4.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="font-size: 12.8px;">A stress fracture has developed on the pot support arm of this BRS-3000T</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
<br />Hikin' Jimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.com8tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-22017832527013171492017-03-02T19:10:00.002-08:002017-03-05T17:26:02.535-08:00BRS-3000T – Failure #2I recently completed <u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/02/the-brs-3000t-worlds-lightest-stove.html" target="_blank">a review of the BRS-3000T</a></u>. In that review, I mentioned that one of my pot supports deformed after 10 or so minutes of using the stove.<br />
<br />
Links:<br />
<ul>
<li><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/02/the-brs-3000t-worlds-lightest-stove.html" target="_blank">BRS-3000T Review</a></u></li>
<li><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/03/brs-3000t-failure-2.html" target="_blank">BRS-3000T Failure #2</a></u></li>
<li><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/03/brs-3000t-another-failure.html" target="_blank">BRS-3000T Failure #3</a></u></li>
</ul>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgg5siGDoEehHViVA9-WScAwYCqIgctv-NeNMMFC7AuOZC5ArGLd2EeYnxJJe-fe1LE_QROfYEna4FWHTJbrDWAavgWknniCGC3mf1JRcvwOxxe50a0Ce3qVEKti9QmnXxyekyqVcsJ-pI/s1600/IMG_6871%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgg5siGDoEehHViVA9-WScAwYCqIgctv-NeNMMFC7AuOZC5ArGLd2EeYnxJJe-fe1LE_QROfYEna4FWHTJbrDWAavgWknniCGC3mf1JRcvwOxxe50a0Ce3qVEKti9QmnXxyekyqVcsJ-pI/s640/IMG_6871%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">My pot, listing to the left, after one of my pot supports deformed.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
Since posting that review, a couple of other people have come forward and mentioned that they've had similar experiences, including Miguel C. who kindly sent me the below photographs.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjSEUg8PJVszN1CynqeoYf0Jga8xGm9HpBN1xUqd55fbpz3Kuu4E5HtIL10nIKITfFV55zCJCRG4nKEn788zEto1uxyr6fwdGdNUgYgYX20QDrQaqXPOzm5wPcx9kiL1Etec39Bn1dHieo/s1600/BRS-3000T_MC5.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjSEUg8PJVszN1CynqeoYf0Jga8xGm9HpBN1xUqd55fbpz3Kuu4E5HtIL10nIKITfFV55zCJCRG4nKEn788zEto1uxyr6fwdGdNUgYgYX20QDrQaqXPOzm5wPcx9kiL1Etec39Bn1dHieo/s640/BRS-3000T_MC5.jpg" width="476" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">A BRS-3000T with deformed pot supports.<br />
Photo courtesy of Miguel C.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
Miguel reports the following:<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Not sure how it happened. I was just cooking rice and a cup of water. I was using the msr [Titan] kettle and two of the stands bent a lil. </blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
The stove was on medium low cooked for like 15 [minutes]. It got super red. There was no winds but it was cold. It happened at night.</blockquote>
<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgvgzoliV0tsFZidjhwQdu91nZGSHLTu2BqcbkA52EsDGiv6BpWgUUDrzAa73KjGHBfrjQwFCeZx-DstTW6L-79wOgsP7PP790nAZYd1d5AdY4g69LV_ijHMLzv0x3-UfnQPljA-xZQKxA/s1600/BRS-3000T_MC4.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgvgzoliV0tsFZidjhwQdu91nZGSHLTu2BqcbkA52EsDGiv6BpWgUUDrzAa73KjGHBfrjQwFCeZx-DstTW6L-79wOgsP7PP790nAZYd1d5AdY4g69LV_ijHMLzv0x3-UfnQPljA-xZQKxA/s640/BRS-3000T_MC4.jpg" width="476" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Another view of a BRS-3000T with deformed pot supports.<br />
Photo courtesy of Miguel C.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
You will note in the above photo that the pot stands are even more deformed than mine were. <br />
<br />
Some people have criticized my use of a 1300 ml pot and 3 cups of water as "heavy." While maybe someone could misconstrue 3 cups of water as "heavy," an MSR Titan Kettle with just one cup of water cannot. <br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiB7lcG19HmCqtlxZ4pSbMwcvhK6VKhAVpFJay9y70HtrsbnEAxMoKfp38sApfmM9pQa4g3Y0YnYH8Jd5R79rtHLMDp7U8oor5nKgEfxD-O0lvinfD5_m0s0KBByNn2ywrd2AUtmyTg3rY/s1600/BRS-3000T_MC_Titan_Kettle.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiB7lcG19HmCqtlxZ4pSbMwcvhK6VKhAVpFJay9y70HtrsbnEAxMoKfp38sApfmM9pQa4g3Y0YnYH8Jd5R79rtHLMDp7U8oor5nKgEfxD-O0lvinfD5_m0s0KBByNn2ywrd2AUtmyTg3rY/s640/BRS-3000T_MC_Titan_Kettle.jpg" width="476" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Miguel's MSR Titan Kettle which contained only 1 cup of water and some rice.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
This is not a weight issue. This is a design and materials issue.<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">So, What the Heck <i>is</i> Happening?</span></b><br />
<br />
Well, for one, the titanium here is <i>not</i> melting. Titanium melts at about 3000 Fahrenheit (about 1700 Celsius). The flame temperature in air of a butane-propane mix (i.e. canister gas) is about 3500 Fahrenheit/1970 Celsius, but you'd have to really focus the flame, as in a blow torch or similar, in order to get the metal that hot, and air would tend to conduct away the heat.<br />
<br />
OK, so it's not melting. So what<i> is</i> happening? Well, metals get soft long before they melt. Think of a blacksmith shoeing a horse. He doesn't melt steel, pour it into a mold, and make a custom shoe. No, he typically already has the shoe made. He just heats it and then pounds on it until it's the right shape. He heats it because the metal gets softer, and then it's easier to work with the metal.<br />
<br />
The same thing is true with titanium. Long before it melts, Titanium will become more malleable. Metals are assigned a rating called a "service" rating. This a temperature above which the metal becomes unreliable. The maximum service rating for titanium is 1100 Fahrenheit/600 Celsius, and that's for a really high grade alloy. The alloy used in a backpacking stove has a rating more likely around 750 Fahrenheit/400 Celsius. Our flame temperature is 3500 Fahrenheit/1700 Celsius, more than <b>four times</b> the service rating of the metal of our stove.<br />
<br />
Titanium is a poor conductor of heat. If the heat can't be conducted away, and the small, thin pot supports of the BRS-3000T aren't going to conduct a lot of heat, the temperature can climb above the maximum service rating, and "creep deformation" can occur. Creep deformation isn't a sudden snap or anything like that. It's a gradual softening of the metal. The metal slowly droops. <br />
<br />
In the case of Miguel's stove, he had it on for a fairly long time (15 minutes) and it was a still night. With no air currents to whisk away the heat, the temperature of the metal climbed above the maximum service rating, and... well, you can just look at the photos, above.<br />
<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">The Good News</span></b><br />
Miguel reports that he just bent the pot supports back after the stove cooled and went on his way. He continues to use the stove. Now, how many times can you do this before the supports break? I don't know, but I wouldn't push it. You want to avoid getting the supports too hot.<br />
<br />
I too just took my fingers and bent it back. The BRS-3000T isn't exactly a beefy stove. It's pretty easy to bend the thin little pot supports.<br />
<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">The Bad News</span></b><br />
The bad news here is that Miguel's failure happened in still air (or a breeze so light as to be undetectable). My failure occurred when the wind focused the flame on my pot support. I was thinking that all one had to do was protect the stove from wind. I still think it is important, vital actually, to protect the stove from wind, but one also has to worry about excessive heat build up in the right conditions. It's a bit of a wild card here, but in general shorter burn times should be OK.<br />
<br />
Interesting stuff. More will be revealed.<br />
<br />
HJ<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />Hikin' Jimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-38120815357366660892017-02-26T23:19:00.001-08:002017-08-22T22:26:50.812-07:00Review: the BRS-3000T – the World's Lightest Gas Stove<br />
At just 25 grams (0.9 oz), the BRS-3000T is unquestionably the world's lightest canister gas stove. But is it any good? I thought I'd see for myself.<br />
<br />
<b>UPDATE 02 March 2017: </b><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/03/brs-3000t-failure-2.html" target="_blank">Failure #2 of the BRS-3000T</a></u><br />
<b>UPDATE 05 March 2017</b>: <u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/03/brs-3000t-another-failure.html" target="_blank">Failure #3 and #4 of the BRS-3000T</a></u><br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEivJtE6HeHnlNDwJ3TW1jyP9JKj9KZqvO53PYSiLyVQNV3pZNxRbwN1lMh_AeeFF7uN8yIiRxP_ddpUdZruB4yLTDzz6yTZI0-bmPeSUQUYWh9cy7eAPsdzWKNw7s5AQzIgyGjQB74KXA0/s1600/IMG_6672%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEivJtE6HeHnlNDwJ3TW1jyP9JKj9KZqvO53PYSiLyVQNV3pZNxRbwN1lMh_AeeFF7uN8yIiRxP_ddpUdZruB4yLTDzz6yTZI0-bmPeSUQUYWh9cy7eAPsdzWKNw7s5AQzIgyGjQB74KXA0/s640/IMG_6672%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The tiny BRS-3000T – only 25 grams!!</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Classification</span></b><br />
I think that it's fair to say that the BRS-3000T is the worlds first true super ultralight (SUL) canister stove. What do I mean by "super ultralight?" Well, take a look at the below chart. The BRS-3000T is the first known canister stove to come in <i>under</i> one ounce (about 28 g) in weight.<br />
<center>
<table border="2" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 240px;">
<colgroup><col style="mso-width-alt: 5156; mso-width-source: userset; width: 106pt;" width="141"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 1938; mso-width-source: userset; width: 40pt;" width="53"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 1682; mso-width-source: userset; width: 35pt;" width="46"></col>
</colgroup><tbody>
<tr height="42" style="height: 31.5pt; mso-height-source: userset;">
<td class="xl66" colspan="3" height="42" style="height: 31.5pt; width: 181pt;" width="240"><div style="text-align: center;">
Canister
Gas Stove Weight Classes </div>
<div style="text-align: center;">
(Less Than or Equal To)</div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl63" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt; width: 106pt;" width="141"></td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 40pt;" width="53">Ounces</td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 35pt;" width="46">Grams</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl64" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt; width: 106pt;" width="141">Heavy</td>
<td class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 40pt;" width="53"><div style="text-align: right;">
4+</div>
</td>
<td class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 35pt;" width="46"><div style="text-align: right;">
113+</div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl64" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt; width: 106pt;" width="141">Moderate</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 40pt;" width="53">< 4</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 35pt;" width="46">< 113</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl64" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt; width: 106pt;" width="141">Light</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 40pt;" width="53">< 3</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 35pt;" width="46">< 85</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl64" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt; width: 106pt;" width="141">Ultralight (UL)</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 40pt;" width="53">< 2</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 35pt;" width="46">< 57</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl64" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt; width: 106pt;" width="141">Super Ultralight (SUL)</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 40pt;" width="53">< 1</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 35pt;" width="46">< 28</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
</center>
<br />
Basically:<br />
<ul>
<li>If an upright canister stove weighs less than or equal to an ounce (28 g), that's SUL in my book.</li>
<li>If it weighs less than or equal to two ounces (57 g) but more than one ounce, then it's UL. </li>
<li>If it weighs less than or equal to three ounces (85 g) but more than two ounces, then it's light. </li>
<li>If it weighs less than or equal to four ounces (113 g) but more than three ounces , then it's moderate. </li>
<li>If it weighs more than a quarter pound (113 g), then it's heavy. </li>
</ul>
I think that's a reasonable categorization, given the state of the art and the stoves commonly used.<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Size</span></b><br />
So, just how small is this thing, anyway? Well, for comparative purposes, I thought I'd put it side-by-side with some other stoves.<br />
<ul>
<li>On the far left is an MSR Pocket Rocket, a moderate weight stove at 3.1 oz/87 g.</li>
<li>Next to the right with the red base is an MSR Pocket Rocket 2, a light weight stove at 2.6 oz/73g. </li>
<li>Next with the yellow base is a FMS-116T (also sold as the Monatauk Gnat and the Olicamp Kinetic Ultra), an ultralight stove at 1.7 oz/48 g. </li>
<li>Last on the right is the BRS-3000T, a super ultralight stove at 0.9 oz/25 g.</li>
</ul>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjKLjOa_vC70h5t9LqpGQLuQtZK5WVJAxVwGZk4wrbEqBDyd5EATycsjkD6d3BeaOSP97FxO6fjpXhUd_E3lhfsuE-nXIcIhSWuGV2OccvOSm2-xqhxHNPxfFemcgoqMyKZH_NPUBIWk54/s1600/IMG_6470.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjKLjOa_vC70h5t9LqpGQLuQtZK5WVJAxVwGZk4wrbEqBDyd5EATycsjkD6d3BeaOSP97FxO6fjpXhUd_E3lhfsuE-nXIcIhSWuGV2OccvOSm2-xqhxHNPxfFemcgoqMyKZH_NPUBIWk54/s640/IMG_6470.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Left to right: an MSR Pocket Rocket, an MSR Pocket Rocket 2, a Fire Maple FMS-116T, and a BRS-3000T.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">"Bench" Testing</span></b><br />
Adventures in Stoving is all about testing, ideally in the field. I do typically test at home before taking a stove out into the field. To that end, I fired it up at home. Right away, I noticed that there was a lot impingement of the flame by the pot supports. The pot supports had a fairly dramatic impact on the flame, as shown by the color change in the flame in the photo, below. Put this into the back of your mind. We'll come back to this later.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEglGa1mpKp4G7QIGgApp8kEmt5p4SNKgex_D4HIYdXY4eZwa0zwzC4auArD4phNVIszM2ud_RczHH0TXBYIJ9HdK1ZnX1FyxoLxQoAl2B09R6pfcMctH7TkTSy5afj3N9j6l7GJPKdIaOI/s1600/IMG_6510.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEglGa1mpKp4G7QIGgApp8kEmt5p4SNKgex_D4HIYdXY4eZwa0zwzC4auArD4phNVIszM2ud_RczHH0TXBYIJ9HdK1ZnX1FyxoLxQoAl2B09R6pfcMctH7TkTSy5afj3N9j6l7GJPKdIaOI/s640/IMG_6510.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The flame of the BRS-3000T hits the pot supports, transmitting a great deal of heat to them. <br />
Note how the far pot support glows in the heat</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
Other stoves did not affect the flame as much even though their pot supports were also in contact with the flame.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhaHp09b5Vtjd1ZRS8SshhcBKeuVyVfUQ1Fy0ZiApqTF7oTsEcMvdIsxsQnPWAR5CGe0fu-gSqUKwdSLH4ctLr5GrTfuS9CCkt4864da0C9SsnM5383GenDhZ1agSIy3zswWt-6UkVdR0w/s1600/IMG_6495.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhaHp09b5Vtjd1ZRS8SshhcBKeuVyVfUQ1Fy0ZiApqTF7oTsEcMvdIsxsQnPWAR5CGe0fu-gSqUKwdSLH4ctLr5GrTfuS9CCkt4864da0C9SsnM5383GenDhZ1agSIy3zswWt-6UkVdR0w/s640/IMG_6495.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The pot supports of an FMS-116T stove have no where near the impact on the flame as do those of the BRS-3000T.</td></tr>
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<b><span style="font-size: large;">Pot Stability</span></b><br />
I was also interested in pot stability. The BRS-3000T is a tiny little stove and of all the stoves I've got has the smallest span to its pot supports.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEge7zdROMDfOAfw4i186XoknTCKt1FxYNhOvFXccEhH2XFhNUeLG_WgPgIPl1LkcZdr3J0bjKr2o4wu9Q7xGnxzaUFNsGE3a3MdoDZzhloydVBhmPBYcT-3LOaFPjfnaujSxyiY59MJtMc/s1600/IMG_6467.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEge7zdROMDfOAfw4i186XoknTCKt1FxYNhOvFXccEhH2XFhNUeLG_WgPgIPl1LkcZdr3J0bjKr2o4wu9Q7xGnxzaUFNsGE3a3MdoDZzhloydVBhmPBYcT-3LOaFPjfnaujSxyiY59MJtMc/s640/IMG_6467.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Top row: An MSR Pocket Rocket 2, left, and an MSR Pocket Rocket, right.<br />
Bottom row: A Fire Maple FMS-116T, left, and a BRS-3000T, right.<br />
The BRS-3000T has the smallest span to its pot supports by far.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Field Testing</span></b><br />
Intrigued by the odd flame pattern I had seen at home, I moved immediately to field testing. I had heard that the BRS-3000T did not perform well in wind. I therefore chose a day with moderate winds for testing.<br />
<br />
Arriving in the field, I began setting up to test. Out of curiosity, I flipped over a 110 g canister of gas. The pot supports fit easily into the underside of the canister. The BRS-3000T is a small stove, and the pot supports don't have a particularly wide span. Pot stability is definitely an issue with this tiny little stove.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjuMIo3AaptVwK-K7bI7NPt5fhjAKRPR1e0nFlxK9Y5pXhHGqISLbDBtwxy8e0jr0Lz98EhqwJ7rKEJ1jWn1scoz48qLAmnfAuH5ItnW59IoM1zLkB6s9wllwHzrI12Vv_U4ep5nLEvpuM/s1600/IMG_6676%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjuMIo3AaptVwK-K7bI7NPt5fhjAKRPR1e0nFlxK9Y5pXhHGqISLbDBtwxy8e0jr0Lz98EhqwJ7rKEJ1jWn1scoz48qLAmnfAuH5ItnW59IoM1zLkB6s9wllwHzrI12Vv_U4ep5nLEvpuM/s640/IMG_6676%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The pot supports of a BRS-3000T are so small that they will fit in the underside of a 110 g canister.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
The nice thing about such small pot supports is that they will work well with small vessels, for example the 250 ml Sierra cup shown in the photo below.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjmONyIW_GhWQCOW0RlNyjX3aiHlMlJIScj93kNZQVyZ5MtKufL7WYpvca-BGxx77FBse9TFbQH7CGjZ5S-Vmkto05ILYorpjAdFp6BARYE63ejmIlrjKzd1pso8X_XE9DD-HcLZeGYJ6w/s1600/IMG_6685%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjmONyIW_GhWQCOW0RlNyjX3aiHlMlJIScj93kNZQVyZ5MtKufL7WYpvca-BGxx77FBse9TFbQH7CGjZ5S-Vmkto05ILYorpjAdFp6BARYE63ejmIlrjKzd1pso8X_XE9DD-HcLZeGYJ6w/s640/IMG_6685%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The BRS-3000T is a good match for a Sierra Cup</td></tr>
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Pot stability is a little tougher with a larger (but not particularly big) pot like the 1300 ml Evernew UL pot shown in the below photo. I probably wouldn't go larger than a 1.5 liter pot on a BRS-3000T, and you'd be better served by keeping your pot size under one liter. The best fit would probably be for pots (or mugs or cups) from about 750 ml to 250 ml in capacity.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiwrz0ugGLAaMO2R_HxJbn3tDo1BbJpOe11BcT48fqJwLwH-LJSBZ2jEc-mao2klj8UR8xKPoPmLP_Sljx426M6iTcrg5MIx0sLOmXuWu0KOTZxOAz6NOWOq3DhNwleSZixFwsqqQecmzk/s1600/IMG_6788%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiwrz0ugGLAaMO2R_HxJbn3tDo1BbJpOe11BcT48fqJwLwH-LJSBZ2jEc-mao2klj8UR8xKPoPmLP_Sljx426M6iTcrg5MIx0sLOmXuWu0KOTZxOAz6NOWOq3DhNwleSZixFwsqqQecmzk/s640/IMG_6788%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">A 1300 ml Evernew UL pot on a BRS-3000T</td></tr>
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I put approximately 750 ml (three cups) of water into the pot, fired it up, and waited. And waited. And waited. And waited. After about 10 minutes the water came to a low boil. The stove was not able to achieve a full roiling boil. I had heard that a BRS-3000T would struggle in wind, but I had no idea it would be this bad. All open burner upright canister stoves are impacted by wind, but I have <i>never</i> seen a stove this wind sensitive before. Even at highest output it could not bring 750 ml of water to a roiling boil, and this was not a particularly windy day. I would describe the winds as moderate. I had to put a weight on my ramen noodle wrapper to keep it from flying away, but it wasn't like cups were being pushed over by the wind, and the trees around me were not blowing way over or anything like that. These were pretty ordinary, common outdoor conditions, conditions that I probably wouldn't even take particular note of normally.<br />
<br />
Well, I was hungry, so I put my noodles in, and, after a bit... what the heck? Did I put the pot on wrong or something? My pot was clearly listing to one side like a sinking ship!<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgvhZzvdP7-VQWPMEd50kGy2ufDF-fTe28KAB9Y6KmPQNReqkTrH_9nSf1eVwM4WUJ5gVMfDNroQ5z1h-2xeZgOhkcC413W2u_9DgfbmmCrL_sNKLBOIzba2VtG94j_Q0BFhREFWzPefDY/s1600/IMG_6871%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgvhZzvdP7-VQWPMEd50kGy2ufDF-fTe28KAB9Y6KmPQNReqkTrH_9nSf1eVwM4WUJ5gVMfDNroQ5z1h-2xeZgOhkcC413W2u_9DgfbmmCrL_sNKLBOIzba2VtG94j_Q0BFhREFWzPefDY/s640/IMG_6871%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">My Evernew 1300 ml pot – canted off to one side atop a BRS-3000T</td></tr>
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Quickly, I grabbed my pot before my lunch took a tumble! Examining the stove, I realized that the pot support had bent. It may be a little hard to see here, but the pot support on the right in the below photo is bent outward and down with a slight twist.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg3LmNVwl6b0Xy3aEdqYEw_reLzTrW3Esy9zD3yD3cFwMThBKtsoAutanAKP_MfeJwm0In1vdT4PHNcSJc2SERZF3Ccqf7Lx1Bpa_QA0lTdtffOpNgdifpNWUn4T-2K_chMi82qil1n_Gc/s1600/IMG_6887%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg3LmNVwl6b0Xy3aEdqYEw_reLzTrW3Esy9zD3yD3cFwMThBKtsoAutanAKP_MfeJwm0In1vdT4PHNcSJc2SERZF3Ccqf7Lx1Bpa_QA0lTdtffOpNgdifpNWUn4T-2K_chMi82qil1n_Gc/s640/IMG_6887%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Note the bend and partial twist in the pot support on the right.</td></tr>
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All I had in the pot was about 750 ml of water and some ramen noodles. I mean c'mon, that is a very normal load for a stove. If I had put a 3 liter pot on a little stove like this maybe I'd understand, but 750 ml? That's trivial. A stove should be able to handle 750 freaking little milliliters. 750 ml is only 0.75 kg (1.7 lbs). <b>Do <i>not</i> get distracted by the pot size.</b> This is not a pot size issue. Read the Analysis section below. The real issue in this case is the wind and the design of the stove.<br />
<br />
Yes, I tested the stove on <i>top</i> of the picnic table. Yes, it would have been better to set it on the ground behind a rock or something, but c'mon! I ought to at least be able to boil water after 10 minutes on high. This stove is a really poor performer in wind, and there certainly shouldn't have been any deformation in the pot supports after 10 to 12 minutes.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgiBDTf0VvDoFAIc-VHpx7nj6QqE9tw9FoISJ3h-CEU81Ggp-lZdj0wYgrQuxwwl_tmWhIgBqqLXUK6cF8oU7vvdPHMh8JlYZ7m_PRpTNnTDAZanKYEEQnyDAO-Qxh_ddhvQDniU7GNHHU/s1600/IMG_6490.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgiBDTf0VvDoFAIc-VHpx7nj6QqE9tw9FoISJ3h-CEU81Ggp-lZdj0wYgrQuxwwl_tmWhIgBqqLXUK6cF8oU7vvdPHMh8JlYZ7m_PRpTNnTDAZanKYEEQnyDAO-Qxh_ddhvQDniU7GNHHU/s640/IMG_6490.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The pot supports of a BRS-3000T are exposed to a great deal of heat.</td></tr>
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Remember that photo I posted earlier? The pot supports absorb a <i>lot</i> of heat from the flame. After 10 minutes on high, they had absorbed enough heat that the pot supports deformed even though they weren't under a particularly heavy load.<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Analysis</span></b><br />
I noticed during use that the wind was blowing the flame toward the pot support that eventually failed. Said pot support was glowing brightly while the pot support opposite was barely affected. So much heat was channeled into the one pot support that even under a relatively light load of less than a kilogram, the pot support experienced "creep deformation" (or "creep failure"), the tendency of a metal to slowly deform under stress – a tendency that increases when both stress and heat are present.<br />
<br />
The way that the flame and supports are configured, the pot supports are blasted with heat. Magnify that effect with wind directing the majority of the heat to a single pot support, and you get creep deformation. Yes, I realize that 10 to 12 minutes is a little long to be running a stove, but, it's not a grossly unreasonable time to run a stove, particularly in wind. A stove shouldn't deform due to its own flame in such a short time. The stove should not have been designed such that the pot supports are blasted with heat – or they should have been made a little more heat resistant. Remember that photo I posted of the flame? Most stoves don't have that kind of discoloration in the flame. There's something peculiar about this stove and its design.<br />
<br />
<b><i>However</i></b>, there are plenty of people using the stove that are not experiencing any problems. It looks like quality control may not be quite what it needs to be with this stove. Combine poor quality control with a design that blasts the pot supports with heat, and you have a recipe for pot support failure.<br />
<br />
Links:<br />
<ul>
<li><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/02/the-brs-3000t-worlds-lightest-stove.html" target="_blank">BRS-3000T Review</a></u></li>
<li><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/03/brs-3000t-failure-2.html" target="_blank">BRS-3000T Failure #2</a></u></li>
<li><u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/03/brs-3000t-another-failure.html" target="_blank">BRS-3000T Failure #3</a></u></li>
</ul>
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Recommendations</span></b><br />
I can't exactly give a good recommendation to a stove that failed during testing. Neither can I give a stove that handles wind so poorly a good recommendation. <br />
<br />
Again, however, I'm aware that there are plenty of people who are using the stove and are not experiencing problems. It’s an inconsistent stove. Maybe you'll get lucky. Maybe you won't. Clearly there are duds out there, and even if you don't get a dud, the right wind conditions could still cause a pot support failure. Also, your pot supports could fail over time, as they did in Failure #3, above.<br />
<br />
I suggest the following:<br />
<ul>
<li>Run the stove for 15 minutes on high with 2 cups of water on before taking it out on the trail for the first time. If your stove can handle a 15 minute run on high at home, then it's probably going to be OK out on the trail. If it fails at home, just buy another one. It's not like they're expensive. The chances of getting two duds are fairly low I would think.</li>
<li>Make <i>absolutely certain</i> to shelter the stove from wind. If you fail to shelter the stove, wind may channel heat to a single pot support which may deform and fail. You should always shelter a stove anyway so that you're not burning through an inordinate amount fuel, but it's particularly critical on the BRS-3000T.</li>
<li>Run the stove at about 50% to 75% of full flame to avoid overheating the pot supports. It'll take a little longer to boil, but you'll actually save gas this way, and you won't have so much heat blasting the pot supports.</li>
</ul>
<div>
If you wanted to really play it safe, you could limit the amount of water boiled at any one time to, say, 500 ml. You could also run the stove for no more than maybe 5 or so minutes at a time, give or take, and you could let the stove cool a bit between successive boils<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Long Term Reliability</span></b><br />
What impact will repeatedly blasting the pot supports with high heat have? I have received reports from people who had good results at first but whose pot supports deformed over time. So, there is the possibility that even if your stove is good at first that it may experience problems over time.<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Alternatives</span></b><br />
BRS has a history of problems; some BRS stoves have been banned by countries in Europe due to repeated safety problems. <br />
<br />
If you really want a good ultra light canister gas stove, look into Fire Maple stoves. Fire Maple has a pretty good reputation. Their FMS-116T (sold in the US as the Olicamp Kinetic Ultra) weighs 48 g/1.7 oz. The Fire Maple FMS-300T (sold in the US as the Olicamp Ion Micro) weighs 45 g/1.5 oz. They're not super fancy stoves, but at least they don't channel so much heat to their pot supports that they deform and dump your dinner.<br />
<br />
Note the nomenclature on that last stove, the 300T. Sound familiar? That's right, the BRS-<i>3000</i>T is a cheap imitation of the FMS-<i>300</i>T. Do yourself a favor; get the real thing. Yeah, it's 0.8 oz/20 g more weight, but at least it doesn't bend after ten minutes of use. My opinion. YMMV.<br />
<br />
And of course there's the Snow Peak LiteMax stove at 1.9 oz/54 grams, which is very compact while still having good pot stability.<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Best Use</span></b><br />
I can't recommend a stove that failed during testing even if, yes, the circumstances were a little bit unusual. However, if anyone were to use a BRS-3000T, it should be a soloist. This is not a good stove for two people, and it is clearly not a group stove. <br />
<br />
I would not recommend the BRS-3000T for snow melting. Snow melting usually requires that a stove be on for longer periods of time although there are people who are doing just that, snow melting, and are not having problems.</div>
<div>
<br /></div>
<div>
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Summary and Conclusion<br />The BRS-3000T</span></b></div>
<div>
<i>What's good about it?</i></div>
<div>
<ul>
<li>Cheap. Prices vary, but I think I paid about $15 for it, including shipping, on Amazon.</li>
<li>Light. Twenty five grams (0.9 oz)!</li>
<li>Compact.</li>
<li>Fits small cups, mugs, and pots well.</li>
</ul>
</div>
<i>What's not so good about it?</i><br />
<ul>
<li>Absolutely abysmal in wind. A windscreen will help, but there are times where even a windscreen may not be enough.</li>
<li>Pot supports get heavily hit by the flame and could fail.</li>
<li>Poor pot stability.</li>
<li>Overly short valve control handle.</li>
</ul>
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<b>The BRS-3000T: Not recommended.</b><br />
<br />
Sorry I couldn't give a better report. I was really hopeful about this stove but am now quite disappointed. Had I bought it locally instead of from China, I would demand my money back.<br />
<br />
HJ<br />
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<b><span style="font-size: large;">Disclosures</span></b><br />
I purchased this stove with my own money on Amazon just like anyone else would. I have no financial relationships with either BRS or Amazon. If I did, I might be giving a much nicer review, don't you think? I am an independent stove reviewer. This is my review; it is no one else's.Hikin' Jimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.com23tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-40674221953157456212017-02-25T08:12:00.001-08:002017-02-26T14:16:01.364-08:00Gas vs. Alcohol – Which is Lighter?Ah, the perennial question among those who wish to save weight: Which is lighter, gas or alcohol?<br />
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I've visited this question before, but now that super ultralight (SUL) canister gas stoves are available, it's time to re-visit the subject.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjYDALo11Mjdfxo-z0vRNKI59uuTmTt2n_drjqsTNPu9hmIdh-PgQ83tZaJLqoSZDFr-QbdFAlO-_NP0khsGJry27PURMDT4FIzg-ugJMDVhX1FLqXO0lPGJ49ngwFF0goQLRGZSrh2bvc/s1600/IMG_6471.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjYDALo11Mjdfxo-z0vRNKI59uuTmTt2n_drjqsTNPu9hmIdh-PgQ83tZaJLqoSZDFr-QbdFAlO-_NP0khsGJry27PURMDT4FIzg-ugJMDVhX1FLqXO0lPGJ49ngwFF0goQLRGZSrh2bvc/s640/IMG_6471.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The BRS-3000T, the world's first super ultralight (SUL) canister gas stove – a mere 25 grams!</td></tr>
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<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Heavy? Or (Ultra) Light?</span> </b><br />
What do I mean by "SUL?" How do we classify canister stoves? Well, here's my schema:<br />
<center>
<table border="2" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 240px;">
<colgroup><col style="mso-width-alt: 5156; mso-width-source: userset; width: 106pt;" width="141"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 1938; mso-width-source: userset; width: 40pt;" width="53"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 1682; mso-width-source: userset; width: 35pt;" width="46"></col>
</colgroup><tbody>
<tr height="42" style="height: 31.5pt; mso-height-source: userset;">
<td class="xl66" colspan="3" height="42" style="height: 31.5pt; width: 181pt;" width="240"><div style="text-align: center;">
Canister
Gas Stove Weight Classes </div>
<div style="text-align: center;">
(Less Than or Equal To)</div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl63" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt; width: 106pt;" width="141"></td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 40pt;" width="53">Ounces</td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 35pt;" width="46">Grams</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl64" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt; width: 106pt;" width="141">Heavy</td>
<td class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 40pt;" width="53"><div style="text-align: right;">
4+</div>
</td>
<td class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 35pt;" width="46"><div style="text-align: right;">
113+</div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl64" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt; width: 106pt;" width="141">Moderate</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 40pt;" width="53">4</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 35pt;" width="46">113</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl64" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt; width: 106pt;" width="141">Light</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 40pt;" width="53">3</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 35pt;" width="46">85</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl64" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt; width: 106pt;" width="141">Ultralight (UL)</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 40pt;" width="53">2</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 35pt;" width="46">57</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl64" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt; width: 106pt;" width="141">Super Ultralight (SUL)</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 40pt;" width="53">1</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 35pt;" width="46">28</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
</center>
<br />
Basically, if a canister stove weighs less than an ounce (28 g), that's SUL in my book. If a stove weighs more than a quarter pound (113 g), that's heavy. I think that's a fair and reasonable categorization, given the state of the art.<br />
<br />
But, Hikin' Jim, uh, isn't this post about <i>comparing</i> gas to alcohol? All you've done so far is talk about gas. <br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><b><span style="font-size: large;">The Math</span></b></span><br />
Ah, yes, quite right. So, for a given trip, which is lighter, alcohol or canister gas? Let's do some math. If you don't like math, then by all means skip down to the discussion, but in order to really feel like I'm on solid footing here, I need to go through the details.<br />
<br />
First, for the purposes of this discussion, I'm going to assume that our gas stove and our alcohol stove set ups weigh about the same. In the case of the BRS-3000T, that would be 25 grams.<br />
<br />
Second, I'm allocating 30 g for the alcohol container and 100 g for the gas canister. Those may not be representative of all containers and canisters everywhere, but let's just go with it for now.<br />
<br />
For this example, assume the individual is going to boil 500 ml of water twice a day. Based on that assumption, I allot 40 ml of alcohol or 20 grams of gas per day. Both of those could be overstated, but these are round numbers for comparative purposes.<br />
<br />
The specific gravity of alcohol is about 0.8, so our 40 ml/day of alcohol is going to weigh about 32 g/day.<br />
<br />
I've laid out an example in the below chart, based on a 5 day trip. By the way, this spreadsheet is available for download if you want to run your own numbers. See the "Get your own danged spreadsheet" section of this post.<br />
<center>
<table border="2" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 496px;">
<colgroup><col style="mso-width-alt: 3291; mso-width-source: userset; width: 68pt;" width="90"></col>
<col span="3" style="mso-width-alt: 1974; mso-width-source: userset; width: 41pt;" width="54"></col>
<col span="2" style="mso-width-alt: 2230; mso-width-source: userset; width: 46pt;" width="61"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 1389; mso-width-source: userset; width: 29pt;" width="38"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 3072; mso-width-source: userset; width: 63pt;" width="84"></col>
</colgroup><tbody>
<tr height="63" style="height: 47.25pt; mso-height-source: userset;">
<td class="xl65" height="63" style="height: 47.25pt; width: 68pt;" width="90"></td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-left: none; width: 41pt;" width="54">Alcohol Calcs</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-left: none; width: 41pt;" width="54">Alcohol Set Up
(grams)</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-left: none; width: 41pt;" width="54">Gas Set Up
(grams)</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-left: none; width: 46pt;" width="61">Alcohol Set Up
(ounces)</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-left: none; width: 46pt;" width="61">Gas Set Up
(ounces)</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-left: none; width: 29pt;" width="38">Gas Calcs</td>
<td class="xl67" style="width: 63pt;" width="84"></td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl66" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt; width: 68pt;" width="90">Stove Weight</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 41pt;" width="54"></td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 41pt;" width="54">25</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 41pt;" width="54">25</td>
<td align="right" class="xl69" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 46pt;" width="61">0.9</td>
<td align="right" class="xl69" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 46pt;" width="61">0.9</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="38"></td>
<td class="xl67" style="width: 63pt;" width="84"></td>
</tr>
<tr height="40" style="height: 30.0pt;">
<td class="xl66" height="40" style="border-top: none; height: 30.0pt; width: 68pt;" width="90">Container Weight</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 41pt;" width="54"></td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 41pt;" width="54">30</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 41pt;" width="54">100</td>
<td align="right" class="xl69" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 46pt;" width="61">1.1</td>
<td align="right" class="xl69" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 46pt;" width="61">3.5</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="38"></td>
<td class="xl67" style="width: 63pt;" width="84"></td>
</tr>
<tr height="40" style="height: 30.0pt;">
<td class="xl66" height="40" style="border-top: none; height: 30.0pt; width: 68pt;" width="90">Fuel/Day (ml)</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 41pt;" width="54">40</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 41pt;" width="54"></td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 41pt;" width="54"></td>
<td class="xl69" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 46pt;" width="61"></td>
<td class="xl69" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 46pt;" width="61"></td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="38">20</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; width: 63pt;" width="84">Gas
grams/day</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl66" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt; width: 68pt;" width="90">Spec Gravity</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 41pt;" width="54">0.8</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 41pt;" width="54"></td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 41pt;" width="54"></td>
<td class="xl69" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 46pt;" width="61"></td>
<td class="xl69" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 46pt;" width="61"></td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="38"></td>
<td class="xl67" style="width: 63pt;" width="84"></td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl66" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt; width: 68pt;" width="90">Fuel/Day (g)</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 41pt;" width="54">32</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 41pt;" width="54"></td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 41pt;" width="54"></td>
<td class="xl69" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 46pt;" width="61"></td>
<td class="xl69" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 46pt;" width="61"></td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="38"></td>
<td class="xl67" style="width: 63pt;" width="84"></td>
</tr>
<tr height="40" style="height: 30.0pt;">
<td class="xl66" height="40" style="border-top: none; height: 30.0pt; width: 68pt;" width="90">Days on Trail</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 41pt;" width="54">5</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 41pt;" width="54"></td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 41pt;" width="54"></td>
<td align="right" class="xl69" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 46pt;" width="61">0.0</td>
<td align="right" class="xl69" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 46pt;" width="61">0.0</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="38">100</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; width: 63pt;" width="84">Total Gas
Weight (g)</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl66" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt; width: 68pt;" width="90">Fuel Weight</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 41pt;" width="54"></td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 41pt;" width="54">160</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 41pt;" width="54">110</td>
<td align="right" class="xl69" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 46pt;" width="61">5.6</td>
<td align="right" class="xl69" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 46pt;" width="61">3.9</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top: none; width: 29pt;" width="38"></td>
<td class="xl67" style="width: 63pt;" width="84"></td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl66" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt; width: 68pt;" width="90">Total Weight</td>
<td class="xl67" style="width: 41pt;" width="54"></td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-top: none; width: 41pt;" width="54">215</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 41pt;" width="54">235</td>
<td align="right" class="xl69" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 46pt;" width="61">7.6</td>
<td align="right" class="xl69" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 46pt;" width="61">8.3</td>
<td class="xl67" style="width: 29pt;" width="38"></td>
<td class="xl67" style="width: 63pt;" width="84"></td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
</center>
<br />
<b style="font-size: x-large;">Discussion</b><br />
Now, the "conventional wisdom" is that a trip shorter than X days is going to be lighter with alcohol but that all trips longer than X days are going to be lighter with gas, the presumption being that since gas is more calorically dense, one would eventually overcome the heavier weight of the steel canister in which the gas is housed. There's some disagreement on exactly what "X" is, but this is the basic argument, that a trip longer than X days will be lighter with gas. <br />
<br />
But is it really true? Well, take a look at the bottom line, total weight, in the chart above. For a trip of 5 days, alcohol is just slightly lighter, by 20 g, than gas. Ah! There you go. So, for anything beyond that, gas will be lighter, right? <br />
<br />
Well, maybe not. Look at the far right column. Do you see the cell labeled "Total Gas Weight"? Look at that number there, 100 grams. So, let's see, one more day than five would be six days, and on the sixth day, we'd add another 20 grams, our daily allotment, giving us a total of 120 grams of gas... But our canister only holds 110 grams of gas. Oops. <br />
<br />
Therein lies the problem with the "conventional wisdom". Canister gas is only sold in lots of roughly 4, 8, or 16 ounces (about 110g, 220g, or 450g; brands vary). The problem with the "conventional wisdom" is that on day six you have to size up to the next larger canister, and... alcohol becomes lighter again.<br />
<br />
Now, are my numbers for every person for every trip? Probably not, but in general the rule should hold: Gas will be lighter after a certain number of days – <i>until you have to size up to the next larger canister</i>.<br />
<br />
Here's how it maps out, in the chart below. Negative numbers in the difference column mean that gas is heavier. Positive numbers mean that gas is lighter.<br />
<br />
Empty canister weights are as follows:<br />
110 g size = 100 g empty<br />
220 g size = 150 g empty<br />
450 g size = 210 g empty<br />
<table border="2" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 455px;">
<colgroup><col span="7" style="width: 49pt;" width="65"></col>
</colgroup><tbody>
<tr height="51" style="height: 38.25pt;">
<td class="xl63" height="51" style="height: 38.25pt; width: 49pt;" width="65">Days</td>
<td class="xl63" style="border-left: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">Alcohol Set Up
(grams)</td>
<td class="xl63" style="border-left: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">Gas Set Up
(grams)</td>
<td class="xl63" style="border-left: none; width: 49pt;" width="65"><b><i>Difference
(grams)</i></b></td>
<td class="xl63" style="border-left: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">Alcohol Set Up
(ounces)</td>
<td class="xl63" style="border-left: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">Gas Set Up
(ounces)</td>
<td class="xl63" style="border-left: none; width: 49pt;" width="65"><b><i>Difference
(ounces)</i></b></td>
</tr>
<tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">
<td align="right" class="xl66" height="17" style="border-top: none; height: 12.75pt;">1</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">87</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">235</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>-148</b></td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">3.1</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">8.3</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>-5.2</b></td>
</tr>
<tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">
<td align="right" class="xl66" height="17" style="border-top: none; height: 12.75pt;">2</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">119</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">235</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>-116</b></td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">4.2</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">8.3</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>-4.1</b></td>
</tr>
<tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">
<td align="right" class="xl66" height="17" style="border-top: none; height: 12.75pt;">3</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">151</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">235</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>-84</b></td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">5.3</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">8.3</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>-3.0</b></td>
</tr>
<tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">
<td align="right" class="xl66" height="17" style="border-top: none; height: 12.75pt;">4</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">183</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">235</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>-52</b></td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">6.5</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">8.3</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>-1.8</b></td>
</tr>
<tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">
<td align="right" class="xl66" height="17" style="border-top: none; height: 12.75pt;">5</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">215</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">235</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>-20</b></td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">7.6</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">8.3</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>-0.7</b></td>
</tr>
<tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">
<td align="right" class="xl66" height="17" style="border-top: none; height: 12.75pt;">6</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">247</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">285</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>-38</b></td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">8.7</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">10.1</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>-1.3</b></td>
</tr>
<tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">
<td align="right" class="xl66" height="17" style="border-top: none; height: 12.75pt;">7</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">279</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">285</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>-6</b></td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">9.8</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">10.1</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>-0.2</b></td>
</tr>
<tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">
<td align="right" class="xl66" height="17" style="border-top: none; height: 12.75pt;">8</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">311</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">285</td>
<td align="right" class="xl69" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>26</b></td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">11.0</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">10.1</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>0.9</b></td>
</tr>
<tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">
<td align="right" class="xl66" height="17" style="border-top: none; height: 12.75pt;">9</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">343</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">285</td>
<td align="right" class="xl69" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>58</b></td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">12.1</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">10.1</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>2.0</b></td>
</tr>
<tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">
<td align="right" class="xl66" height="17" style="border-top: none; height: 12.75pt;">10</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">375</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">285</td>
<td align="right" class="xl69" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>90</b></td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">13.2</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">10.1</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>3.2</b></td>
</tr>
<tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">
<td align="right" class="xl66" height="17" style="border-top: none; height: 12.75pt;">11</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">407</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">445</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>-28</b></td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">14.4</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">15.3</td>
<td align="right" class="xl67" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>-1.3</b></td>
</tr>
<tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">
<td align="right" class="xl66" height="17" style="border-top: none; height: 12.75pt;">12</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">439</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">445</td>
<td align="right" class="xl69" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>4</b></td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">15.5</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">15.3</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>0.2</b></td>
</tr>
<tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">
<td align="right" class="xl66" height="17" style="border-top: none; height: 12.75pt;">13</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">471</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">445</td>
<td align="right" class="xl69" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>36</b></td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">16.6</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">15.3</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>0.2</b></td>
</tr>
<tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">
<td align="right" class="xl66" height="17" style="border-top: none; height: 12.75pt;">14</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">503</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">445</td>
<td align="right" class="xl69" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>68</b></td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">17.7</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">15.3</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>2.0</b></td>
</tr>
<tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">
<td align="right" class="xl66" height="17" style="border-top: none; height: 12.75pt;">15</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">535</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">445</td>
<td align="right" class="xl69" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>100</b></td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">18.9</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">15.3</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>3.2</b></td>
</tr>
<tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">
<td align="right" class="xl66" height="17" style="border-top: none; height: 12.75pt;">16</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">567</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">445</td>
<td align="right" class="xl69" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>132</b></td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">20.0</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">15.3</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>4.3</b></td>
</tr>
<tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">
<td align="right" class="xl66" height="17" style="border-top: none; height: 12.75pt;">17</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">599</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">445</td>
<td align="right" class="xl69" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>164</b></td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">21.1</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">15.3</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>5.4</b></td>
</tr>
<tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">
<td align="right" class="xl66" height="17" style="border-top: none; height: 12.75pt;">18</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">631</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">445</td>
<td align="right" class="xl69" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>196</b></td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">22.3</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">15.3</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>6.6</b></td>
</tr>
<tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">
<td align="right" class="xl66" height="17" style="border-top: none; height: 12.75pt;">19</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">663</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">445</td>
<td align="right" class="xl69" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>228</b></td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">23.4</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">15.3</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>7.7</b></td>
</tr>
<tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">
<td align="right" class="xl66" height="17" style="border-top: none; height: 12.75pt;">20</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">695</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">445</td>
<td align="right" class="xl69" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>260</b></td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">24.5</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">15.3</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>8.8</b></td>
</tr>
<tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">
<td align="right" class="xl66" height="17" style="border-top: none; height: 12.75pt;">21</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">727</td>
<td align="right" class="xl66" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;">445</td>
<td align="right" class="xl69" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>292</b></td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">25.6</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 49pt;" width="65">15.3</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none;"><b>9.9</b></td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
<div>
<br />
Notes on the above chart:<br />
<ul>
<li>For days one through four, alcohol is about 5 to about 2 ounces lighter.</li>
<li>On day five, it's less than a one ounce difference between the two, but alcohol is still a bit lighter.</li>
<li>But on day six, the amount of weight saved by using alcohol <i>increases </i>to 1.3 oz. Why? Because we had to size up to the next larger canister.</li>
<li>By day seven, you're at basically a break even.</li>
<li>For days eight through ten, finally gas is actually lighter.</li>
<li>On day eleven, alcohol goes back to being the lighter weight option again. Why? Because we had to size up to the next larger canister.</li>
<li>Finally, starting on day twelve, gas is always lighter, increasingly so, for the remainder of the three week period that is mapped out in the above chart.</li>
</ul>
You will note in the above that the progression is not straight line (non-linear). It jumps up disproportionately because the weight of a canister does not increase steadily. The first 110 grams of gas requires 100 grams of canister weight (about a 1;1 ratio). The next 110 grams only requires 50 additional grams of canister weight (about a 2:1 ratio), and then the next 200 grams only requires 60 additional grams (about a 4:1 ratio). Incidentally, I think we can see here that it's going to generally be better to carry one larger canister rather than multiple smaller canisters for a given amount of gas.<br />
<br /></div>
<div>
</div>
<b style="font-size: x-large;">Summary</b><br />
<ul><div>
</div>
<li>Trips of one to four days have reasonably good weight savings when using alcohol.</li>
<li>Trips of five to eight days don't show a whole lot of difference either way.</li>
<li>Trips longer than eight days will generally see better results with canister gas, with the exception of day eleven where alcohol will be lighter.</li>
</ul>
<div>
<b style="font-size: x-large;">Concluding Remarks</b></div>
<div>
</div>
Now, "your mileage may vary" (YMMV) as they say. The number of people, type of cooking, conditions, and the specific stove set ups will affect these calculations. But regardless of the specifics, it's going to be along these lines. Don't just assume that trips longer than X days will always be lighter on canister gas. <i>Factor in when you will have to size up to the next larger size canister</i>. And of course, my underlying assumptions in terms of how much fuel will be needed per day may not apply to you. The best course of action is to run your own numbers based on your situation, which leads me to say:
<br />
<div>
<br />
<b style="font-size: x-large;">Get Your Own Danged Spreadsheet!</b></div>
<div>
Don't like my numbers? That's perfectly understandable. Use your own numbers. You can <u><a href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B47XMx52FYlxbmhPajBLMWdZczg/view" target="_blank">download my Excel spreadsheet</a></u>, which is in xlsx format, and then you can run any number of different scenarios. Cells in which you need to enter values into are highlighted in yellow. You need to enter the following:<br />
<ul>
<li>Stove weight, once for alcohol and once for gas.</li>
<li>Container weight, just for alcohol. Gas container weight will be calculated for you based on how much total gas your trip requires. </li>
<li>Fuel per day, once for alcohol and once for gas.</li>
<li>Days on trail.</li>
</ul>
</div>
<div>
Once you enter the above values, the spreadsheet will calculate the total weight for both alcohol and gas. The results will be displayed in both metric (to the left) and English (to the right) units. I hope it's helpful to you.<br />
<br /></div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<b style="font-size: x-large;">Does It Matter?</b></div>
<div>
</div>
Does any of this matter? Aren't the weight differences too small to care about? Maybe. It depends on the individual. There are gram weenies that count every gram. There are ounce counters that will save every ounce they can. And then there are people for whom a few ounces really don't matter much either way.</div>
<br />
However, considering how excited people get over a stove that weighs about an ounce and a half (FMS-300T) vs. a stove that weighs about one ounce (BRS-3000T), I'm thinking that there are people that will be interested. Regardless, the spreadsheet is here if you want to use it. Whether or not it matters, well, that's up to you.<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Tailoring to the Trip</span></b><br />
Let me leave you with one last thought: Sometimes <i>starting </i>pack weight isn't the only issue. <br />
<br />
What do I mean by that? Well, recall that you have to burn more alcohol per day to boil the same amount of water. Your pack weight will fall faster with alcohol. With gas, your pack weight decreases more slowly, and you've always got at least a quarter pound lump of steel in the bottom of your pack – the canister.<br />
<br />
If you're planning a trip where you've got a big first day, then of course you want to minimize your first day's weight. But if you're planning a trip where there's a rough go in the middle or end of the trip, you might actually want to choose alcohol since your pack may be lighter – at the time that you do the rough section – despite having a higher initial starting weight. If you're going to have big climb, a tricky scramble, or a XC route toward the end of the trip, it might make sense to bring alcohol even if it were heavier at the start of the trip.<br />
<br />
Thanks for putting up with all the math,</div>
<div>
<br /></div>
<div>
HJ</div>
Hikin' Jimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.com5tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-9833300538269010442017-02-19T20:47:00.001-08:002017-02-24T16:00:32.790-08:00Review – The Kovea Booster+1 Dual Fuel Backpacking Stove.The Booster+1 from Kovea is a dual fuel backpacking stove designed to work on either canister gas or white gasoline (e.g. MSR Super Fuel, Coleman Fuel, Crown Camp Fuel, etc.).<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhJic4Nua0IvhiGfIS00W9DXpWI5vTR6WAT6Qno3c1wAuiajvNSRBB0nBKOpnPEJhZ03UZ5nOmywFGdvYzQ9-gGuZ2TF7FeZsHeX35hQm0bSKpjd9yxlR4K56sHW-wDaQqCiMtmV8ZqAWk/s1600/IMG_5963.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhJic4Nua0IvhiGfIS00W9DXpWI5vTR6WAT6Qno3c1wAuiajvNSRBB0nBKOpnPEJhZ03UZ5nOmywFGdvYzQ9-gGuZ2TF7FeZsHeX35hQm0bSKpjd9yxlR4K56sHW-wDaQqCiMtmV8ZqAWk/s640/IMG_5963.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The Booster+1 dual fuel stove from Kovea.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
Kovea is the best known stove company that you've never heard of. For several major stove brands, who's actually making the stove? Kovea. You know their products but not necessarily their name.<br />
<br />
Kovea makes either parts or entire stoves for Snow Peak, MSR, Edelrid, and Markill. I'm sure that there are others. Now, not every single stove, particularly in the case of MSR which does still make many of their own stoves, but Kovea makes at least some stoves for each of the above brands.<br />
<br />
People have noticed that this stove is the exact same stove as a stove formerly sold by Markill. Kovea has been making the stove all along. When Markill stopped selling the stove, the Markill Phoenix, Kovea started selling the stove under their own brand as the Booster+1. <br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><b><br /></b></span>
<span style="font-size: large;"><b>Single Jet</b></span><br />
One of the really nice things about the Booster+1 is that you don't have to change <i>anything </i>when you change fuels. You don't have to swap out the jet; neither do you have to change the connector. Whether you use liquid fuel or gas fuel, the stove remains the same.<br />
<b style="font-size: x-large;"><br /></b>
<b style="font-size: x-large;">Multi fuel or dual fuel?</b><br />
Kovea refers to the Booster+1 as a "multi" fuel stove, but to my mind a stove should work well with at least three fuels in order to get the "multi fuel" designation. I mention this because you may read reviews elsewhere that the Booster+1 can run on unleaded automotive gasoline, diesel, kerosene, etc. I would be very skeptical of such claims. It can be run on some of those fuels, but the chances of it really running well are low (based on experience), and the chances of clogging the stove are high.<br />
<br />
<b style="font-size: x-large;">Alternative Fuels</b><br />
If you're in an area where canister gas and white gasoline are simply unavailable, choose kerosene (1-K grade) if it is available or if you're near an airport Jet A1 or Jet A will work. Leaded aviation gasoline (for propeller driven planes) and unleaded automotive gasoline should be avoided because of the tendency for the additives in the fuel to clog the stove. So also diesel should generally be avoided, <i>but</i> special diesel #1 ("winter diesel") can be used in a pinch; just be sure it's the special #1 and <i>not</i> the normal diesel #2. <br />
<br />
If you were interested in "alternative" fuels for the Booster+1, I have investigated the use of kerosene here: <u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/02/the-kovea-booster1-multi-fuel-or-just.html" target="_blank">The Kovea Booster+1 – Multi Fuel or Just Dual Fuel?</a></u> In order to use kerosene, you will need to know the priming and operational techniques discussed in this link. Again, though, canister gas and white gasoline are the recommended fuels. While you can use kerosene, the Booster+1 will not run as well on kerosene as it will on the fuels for which it was designed.<br />
<br />
If they were cheaper and you wanted to use them, you could use "panel wipe" (common in the UK) or "environmental" gasoline (gasoline without automotive engine additives) without a problem. "Sweet, light" naphtha should work also. <br />
<br />
Paint thinner, which is somewhere in between gasoline and kerosene in terms of its properties should also work, but I have not tried it. I mention some of these fuels not as a recommendation but rather as possible options for use in a pinch when more conventional stove fuels are unavailable.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjgJ0YLgibZgzM62nekdUZfmMRyYOf5Z1k2j0uwL_pUS0zKHM6Eurn2zbc1Ct4vOZtdHJnEAMtzc1nzYwgyCVJZOevkSUlkUTjBEymM2SkopPiccU2_ZvTm7RkvIEy7AjO2e8QzFhdY6ME/s1600/IMG_6440.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjgJ0YLgibZgzM62nekdUZfmMRyYOf5Z1k2j0uwL_pUS0zKHM6Eurn2zbc1Ct4vOZtdHJnEAMtzc1nzYwgyCVJZOevkSUlkUTjBEymM2SkopPiccU2_ZvTm7RkvIEy7AjO2e8QzFhdY6ME/s640/IMG_6440.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The Kovea Booster+1 running on kerosene. You can make do with kerosene in a pinch. <br />
See the above link for tips and appropriate technique.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<b style="font-size: x-large;">Boxed Set</b><br />
The Booster+1 comes in a nice boxed set. There are two versions, one with a fuel bottle included, and one without. Make sure you know which one you are getting. You <i>will</i> need a fuel bottle if you plan to use white gasoline. If you only plan to use canister gas, then you're all set, and you don't need to buy a fuel bottle. Either set includes a windscreen.<br />
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: left; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj-fPSWZXzDYo-8MMum2ZyMd-ixWQLE_9CO0OBuDMtKWMe3aE6Cwi1GOdiYIPpEFqyzAnctnKnRnhCvjvmmwn-PJDKzfH9_R4PDgSl_lVMGzB5QfRXK1hhXTkRjvgAYUKSxxskFnEawjds/s1600/IMG_5640.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj-fPSWZXzDYo-8MMum2ZyMd-ixWQLE_9CO0OBuDMtKWMe3aE6Cwi1GOdiYIPpEFqyzAnctnKnRnhCvjvmmwn-PJDKzfH9_R4PDgSl_lVMGzB5QfRXK1hhXTkRjvgAYUKSxxskFnEawjds/s640/IMG_5640.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">A Kovea Booster+1 boxed set. This is the version that does <i>not</i> include a fuel bottle.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
<b style="font-size: x-large;">What's in the Box?</b><br />
Inside the box is a nice zippered nylon case. Inside the case is the stove. One can also place the supplied maintenance tool inside the case, but there is not room for the pump. However, I don't get too excited about this. Just keep the pump in the bottle. The fuel bottle will protect the threads and underside of the pump, and the pump will take up far less space. When the bottle is empty, don't screw down the pump tightly so that you don't wear out the gasket.<br />
<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgWj2V-qMBaGeGcKWCS-K9SqeTDNrGRreLbekckxi-K6Q_vglGGsuOVLhztaV6Mo1GAbGKBhYe36QEUugueuLzYP5LlgZgKRr-zic6feeEHENyCoFAXxmJzC5N3Ueg5tcNdaZZiCrO1aco/s1600/IMG_5643.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgWj2V-qMBaGeGcKWCS-K9SqeTDNrGRreLbekckxi-K6Q_vglGGsuOVLhztaV6Mo1GAbGKBhYe36QEUugueuLzYP5LlgZgKRr-zic6feeEHENyCoFAXxmJzC5N3Ueg5tcNdaZZiCrO1aco/s640/IMG_5643.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The zippered nylon case of the Kovea Booster+1 has room for the stove, maintenance tool, and the spares kit.<br />
There isn't enough room for the pump, but who cares? Just keep the pump on the fuel bottle.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
Speaking of the pump, I regard the Kovea pump as a high quality fuel pump. The fuel pump has some nice features like a knob that is turned so that one can screw on the connector. See my <u><a href="http://sectionhiker.com/the-kovea-hydra-backpacking-stove/" target="_blank">review of the Kovea Hydra</a></u> for details of this feature and further commentary on the pump. Since the Booster+1's pump is the same pump as the Kovea Hydra, I will not repeat all of my earlier review here. <br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjywZ0T3R8CmLkSNYtkHQ2OCVYYgCfqv7m79lxfj3W9fUmz63oBk7zXsz_NVpSYwyutDfY_jg2A1URJDjiEm-2-4d6ptgjW9Nak4HDM40fTN7mYW5SLrTp_tElteFyoMxW1RJNf-09YYFY/s1600/IMG_5652.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjywZ0T3R8CmLkSNYtkHQ2OCVYYgCfqv7m79lxfj3W9fUmz63oBk7zXsz_NVpSYwyutDfY_jg2A1URJDjiEm-2-4d6ptgjW9Nak4HDM40fTN7mYW5SLrTp_tElteFyoMxW1RJNf-09YYFY/s640/IMG_5652.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The high quality Kovea fuel pump.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
As I mentioned, the Booster+1 comes with a spares kit which includes things like "O" rings, a spare jet, lubricant, and a spare pump cup. <br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjk1XAB9cvUsL6c-oKCV-uoQvH1n_lbFD9D3xi5K7b235I1Wbrq11kzVohlCUZQAiJW5sfh8Rtm46nQFsil3j2gqyscTlooLDCpbh6omGD7aYwW8DdxzHEUjL8xfb6VIsq5GhLzoO9EeY0/s1600/IMG_5648.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjk1XAB9cvUsL6c-oKCV-uoQvH1n_lbFD9D3xi5K7b235I1Wbrq11kzVohlCUZQAiJW5sfh8Rtm46nQFsil3j2gqyscTlooLDCpbh6omGD7aYwW8DdxzHEUjL8xfb6VIsq5GhLzoO9EeY0/s640/IMG_5648.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The spares kit of the Booster+1</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
It's a nice little kit, and along with the maintenance tool, should be able to handle routine maintenance as well as trouble shooting in the field.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhx78KMNLrFlB2Rz7eVMkb6rCMKUcot_viohU2rglJVzVJIXPGUC-pzaoxbi53nmZesD7eme2pqDDE68YONjk-4s_19zZ-SuxbnMAo1g88CjU57-MQY0RyJymTfHAfOj0nXlq7tBdNzOv0/s1600/IMG_5678.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhx78KMNLrFlB2Rz7eVMkb6rCMKUcot_viohU2rglJVzVJIXPGUC-pzaoxbi53nmZesD7eme2pqDDE68YONjk-4s_19zZ-SuxbnMAo1g88CjU57-MQY0RyJymTfHAfOj0nXlq7tBdNzOv0/s640/IMG_5678.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The maintenance tool for the Kovea Booster+1. <br />
Note the wire "pricker" for cleaning the jet at the end of the tool.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<div>
The maintenance tool is a little on the heavy side in my opinion, but it certainly will get the job done. It would be nice to see a few grams shaved off – so long as it didn't diminish the effectiveness of the tool.</div>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgX0bAX5CTEK5YjkUUWNqXK8K_-rARFmggbU4ABPEEjHpbf2HSC_y6zghrjhLwSIORQK5DmcqYussme2XYxLFwZHyeGFI2quX9iyrKvDpFrkHXlPWOI27WKGhUg9-X0BhkVVSWGUR6xXJw/s1600/IMG_5656.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgX0bAX5CTEK5YjkUUWNqXK8K_-rARFmggbU4ABPEEjHpbf2HSC_y6zghrjhLwSIORQK5DmcqYussme2XYxLFwZHyeGFI2quX9iyrKvDpFrkHXlPWOI27WKGhUg9-X0BhkVVSWGUR6xXJw/s640/IMG_5656.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The Kovea Booster+1 duel fuel backpacking stove (in folded configuration).</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<div>
<br />
<b style="font-size: x-large;">The Stove Review</b><br />
The stove itself can only be described as beefy. I mean this thing is <i>strong.</i> This might be a great stove for scouts and for, say, college outdoor clubs and the like where gear tends to take a beating. Also, a number of expedition type users have reported very good results with the stove. This is a very robust, heavy duty, reliable stove that is very field maintainable. There is a cable threaded through the generator that can be pulled out and re-inserted like a pipe cleaner should the generator gum up due to poor quality fuels of the type found in remote places.<br />
<br />
The legs are very strong steel. The pot supports have a very wide span and will accommodate heavy pots for large groups or for snow melting. There is little I would worry about failing on this stove; it is <i>strong</i>. However, there's always a trade off on such things. Yes, the stove is extremely strong, but it is therefore consequently also fairly heavy, weighing in at 310 g/11 oz for the stove, 116 g/4 oz for the pump, and 43 g/1.5 oz for the tool. You don't absolutely have to carry the tool, and many people will just throw the stove in their pot (and leave the case at home), so let's say the minimum weight is 426 g/15 oz for just the stove and pump. Of course you'll need a bottle, but the size and brand you carry will vary, so I'm not going to try to estimate the weight here.</div>
<div>
<br /></div>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgAJ5PG5635ysE7cVtfvAqCwCEokCOvUfdgU87M4_1iX2l8waynOYS2RLvbmW0la3aPxtlgBHNzdO2paSui2lZv-HWJNPaQO882POA6bllLmAT2PsHXxX5ZAp1TqSUPYTdtXZxf5zpjBVw/s1600/IMG_5665.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgAJ5PG5635ysE7cVtfvAqCwCEokCOvUfdgU87M4_1iX2l8waynOYS2RLvbmW0la3aPxtlgBHNzdO2paSui2lZv-HWJNPaQO882POA6bllLmAT2PsHXxX5ZAp1TqSUPYTdtXZxf5zpjBVw/s640/IMG_5665.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The fuel line of the Booster+1 sticks out, rigidly, at a bit of an odd angle.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<div>
There is one thing here that I find slightly irritating. It's minor, but the fuel line sticks out at a kind of funny angle, and, since the fuel line here is rigid, the stove winds up taking more space than it really needs to. It's a fairly large stove. I don't think it will be able to fit into a pot of less than about 1 liter in size.<br />
<br />
However, that's not to say that there aren't some smart features here. For example, there's a bend in the fuel line such that one can clean the jet without disassembling anything, er, well, you do have to pop off the flame spreader, but that's not exactly disassembling a stove. I mean putting on and off the flame spreader is about as difficult as opening and closing a bottle of water. <br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhf3zJtH-Qpt3OxILh-uaPaoQWwAUErvBJeYyrAlr-hN_wZpmNXM9O2R7RsiqCp_ylQi9nEg652dAcHLyUPMguUoqtkqf4BO5CwIA7XKko_ppaqwVBQ51rarUlcM44oGl2U54brhOZ6xwE/s1600/IMG_5683.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhf3zJtH-Qpt3OxILh-uaPaoQWwAUErvBJeYyrAlr-hN_wZpmNXM9O2R7RsiqCp_ylQi9nEg652dAcHLyUPMguUoqtkqf4BO5CwIA7XKko_ppaqwVBQ51rarUlcM44oGl2U54brhOZ6xwE/s640/IMG_5683.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">There's a nicely designed bend in the fuel line so that one can access the jet easily.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
The Booster+1 attaches to both it's fuel pump and to a canister of gas by means of a standard 7/16ths UNEF threaded connector. <br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhlPuv2l853EdKUQVclk3W7gzBMte5XAhuwpgjQwFWKzaH-AvnLE-UM-DF2HVuwSLeU_gyCA2Fb-gDRqNPhHXqZv8gK3j4AyrINf8XjTkKQDM4yLDrZUJOPtYoG1TF5bvbXJtDXV_oY4JU/s1600/IMG_5661.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhlPuv2l853EdKUQVclk3W7gzBMte5XAhuwpgjQwFWKzaH-AvnLE-UM-DF2HVuwSLeU_gyCA2Fb-gDRqNPhHXqZv8gK3j4AyrINf8XjTkKQDM4yLDrZUJOPtYoG1TF5bvbXJtDXV_oY4JU/s640/IMG_5661.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The Booster+1 uses a standard threaded connector to attach to a) its fuel pump or b) standard threaded canisters.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
The Booster+1 is compatible therefore with standard threaded brands of canisters, for example, MSR, Jetboil, Coleman, Primus, Optimus, Brunton, Snow Peak, etc.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiiMj_ZSG2OrzFPvAnGXogQNWQKyx1OmSjxy-G44s12xSsMZQbHnIGYtGWY4rK3RHJVxoQ6s4KnJw5TGLNZdOErXwbxbdXgZVlanB346iTTcO-vxRJGuLBrcMjxfPObZPIUa9ZJRrD8sUY/s1600/IMG_5804.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiiMj_ZSG2OrzFPvAnGXogQNWQKyx1OmSjxy-G44s12xSsMZQbHnIGYtGWY4rK3RHJVxoQ6s4KnJw5TGLNZdOErXwbxbdXgZVlanB346iTTcO-vxRJGuLBrcMjxfPObZPIUa9ZJRrD8sUY/s640/IMG_5804.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The connector of a Booster+1 attached to an MSR brand canister</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
<b style="font-size: x-large;">Cold Weather Canister Gas Operation</b><br />
Note that in the photo above, I am running the stove with the canister upside down. Not all stoves can handle this kind of operation, but those stoves that can operate this way gain a roughly 20 Fahrenheit degree (10 Celsius degrees) advantage over stoves in cold weather. See my article <u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2016/12/gas-stoves-in-cold-weather-regulator.html" target="_blank">Gas Stoves in Cold Weather – Regulator Valves and Inverted Canisters</a></u> for further information on cold weather and canister gas.<br />
<br />
<b style="font-size: x-large;">Fuel line and rotating coupler</b><br />
The fuel line is nice and flexible, and it's long enough that you can stand the bottle up as you pump, letting gravity help you with your work. I find this to be a huge plus.<br />
<br />
In addition the coupler fully rotates. There's a big advantage here: One can turn the fuel bottle upside down such that the fuel intake is 180 degrees opposite it's normal direction. In other words, instead of dipping down into the fuel, the fuel intake is in the air space inside the bottle. What's the big deal? Well, there are two advantages to this:<br />
<br />
<ol>
<li><b>Purging the fuel line.</b> If you turn the fuel bottle over while the valve is still open, air will start coming down the fuel hose instead of fuel. This cleans out the fuel line so that you won't have fuel drying inside the hose leaving potentially clogging deposits behind.</li>
<li><b>Clean hands.</b> If you let all the air out by turning the fuel bottle upside down, then there's no pressure bursting out when you unscrew the pump from the bottle. With some stoves, the only way to release the pressure is to unscrew the pump <i>while still pressurized</i> which inevitably means that your hands are going to get sprayed with fuel as the pressure is released.</li>
</ol>
<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh33Ztie-VyQmZNcLKYPa3vSAusKLHFRv2IIu6LEyUcM5NxfUXYFSTLuIs9_G4uk3qDGwNNGlZGehf1LMhAYtFzu6fojZVZSI4zGfhTFoom89AlT16oW-MBGsu4TmNbBo7LcqhGX4wLbpI/s1600/IMG_5966.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh33Ztie-VyQmZNcLKYPa3vSAusKLHFRv2IIu6LEyUcM5NxfUXYFSTLuIs9_G4uk3qDGwNNGlZGehf1LMhAYtFzu6fojZVZSI4zGfhTFoom89AlT16oW-MBGsu4TmNbBo7LcqhGX4wLbpI/s640/IMG_5966.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The fuel line is nice and flexible which allows one to stand the bottle upright while pumping.<br />
Note that I use alcohol for priming which burns much cleaner than white gasoline and is less prone to fireballing.<br />
The fuel bottle in the photo is a Sigg brand bottle. The Booster+1 is compatible with standard Sigg type threads.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
At the base of each leg, there is a nice non-slip rubber pad. I found the Booster+1 to be extremely stable. Extremely.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgq6kyRs-dnxUZDGDrfT_NfrGozQ4B7Bs7dddH7kNCoJz8pefNWYzj2ziEBTUmiSh7dJ7MAJUJRuIEJKq-6xUSKuU6ar7MyB80NUSxNc5vwp5bncVvK5Yo_csLhr4-hpTMPJl8O5D9YMuE/s1600/IMG_5715.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgq6kyRs-dnxUZDGDrfT_NfrGozQ4B7Bs7dddH7kNCoJz8pefNWYzj2ziEBTUmiSh7dJ7MAJUJRuIEJKq-6xUSKuU6ar7MyB80NUSxNc5vwp5bncVvK5Yo_csLhr4-hpTMPJl8O5D9YMuE/s640/IMG_5715.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The Booster+1 is well thought out with nice features like this non-slip rubber pad on the end of each leg.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<span style="font-size: large;"><b>The Booster+1 vs. the Hydra</b></span><br />
Here is a photo of the Kovea Booster+1 alongside another stove I recently reviewed, the Kovea Hydra.</div>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh_EYgrbdftbHxYpvByAn_RS1n7hyphenhyphenCwOXfkxQ29i-yU0DzyCS2rtTjxab7C70qetw3hJsZdmywE9gJKIHz_iygUhaH8pg-9YdGa1sby1HXAWZzNZFsBXRxAnlyBSNPOXNzMquRfp07f4A8/s1600/IMG_6032.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh_EYgrbdftbHxYpvByAn_RS1n7hyphenhyphenCwOXfkxQ29i-yU0DzyCS2rtTjxab7C70qetw3hJsZdmywE9gJKIHz_iygUhaH8pg-9YdGa1sby1HXAWZzNZFsBXRxAnlyBSNPOXNzMquRfp07f4A8/s640/IMG_6032.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The Kovea Booster+1, left, and the Kovea Hydra, right.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<div>
Whereas the Kovea Hydra is a study in compactness, the Kovea Booster+1 is not. Indeed, if one were to compare the two stoves, one might describe them as opposites.<br />
<table border="2" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 443px;">
<colgroup><col style="mso-width-alt: 2816; mso-width-source: userset; width: 58pt;" width="77"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 2304; mso-width-source: userset; width: 47pt;" width="63"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 2486; mso-width-source: userset; width: 51pt;" width="68"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 2669; mso-width-source: userset; width: 55pt;" width="73"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 3254; mso-width-source: userset; width: 67pt;" width="89"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 2669; mso-width-source: userset; width: 55pt;" width="73"></col>
</colgroup><tbody>
<tr height="40" style="height: 30.0pt;">
<td class="xl65" height="40" style="height: 30.0pt; width: 58pt;" width="77"><b>Stove</b></td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; width: 47pt;" width="63"><b>Bulk</b></td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; width: 51pt;" width="68"><b>Strength</b></td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; width: 55pt;" width="73"><b>Noise</b></td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; width: 67pt;" width="89"><b>Maintenance</b></td>
<td class="xl64" style="border-left: none; width: 55pt;" width="73"><b>Wind Resistance</b></td>
</tr>
<tr height="40" style="height: 30.0pt;">
<td class="xl64" height="40" style="border-top: none; height: 30.0pt; width: 58pt;" width="77"><b>Booster+1</b></td>
<td class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 47pt;" width="63">Bulky</td>
<td class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 51pt;" width="68">Very
strong</td>
<td class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 55pt;" width="73">Loud</td>
<td class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 67pt;" width="89">Easy</td>
<td class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 55pt;" width="73">High</td>
</tr>
<tr height="40" style="height: 30.0pt;">
<td class="xl64" height="40" style="border-top: none; height: 30.0pt; width: 58pt;" width="77"><b>Hydra</b></td>
<td class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 47pt;" width="63">Compact</td>
<td class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 51pt;" width="68">Adequate
with care</td>
<td class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 55pt;" width="73">Unusually
quiet</td>
<td class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 67pt;" width="89">A
bit trickier</td>
<td class="xl63" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 55pt;" width="73">Low*</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
<span style="font-size: 12.8px; text-align: center;">*It is important to use a properly sized windscreen with the Kovea Hydra. See my <u><a href="http://sectionhiker.com/the-kovea-hydra-backpacking-stove/" target="_blank">review of the Hydra</a></u>.</span></div>
<div>
<span style="font-size: 12.8px; text-align: center;"><br /></span></div>
<div>
The Booster+1 is built like a tank and will take a lot of abuse. With the Hydra, one has to be a bit more gentle. The Booster+1 is a much larger, beefier, and more powerful stove (see below chart), but it's a bit loud. The Hydra is probably the quietest liquid fueled stove that I have ever used.<br />
<table border="2" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 370px;">
<colgroup><col style="mso-width-alt: 2816; mso-width-source: userset; width: 58pt;" width="77"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 2304; mso-width-source: userset; width: 47pt;" width="63"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 2486; mso-width-source: userset; width: 51pt;" width="68"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 2669; mso-width-source: userset; width: 55pt;" width="73"></col>
<col style="mso-width-alt: 3254; mso-width-source: userset; width: 67pt;" width="89"></col>
</colgroup><tbody>
<tr height="60" style="height: 45.0pt;">
<td class="xl67" height="60" style="height: 45.0pt; width: 58pt;" width="77"><b>Stove</b></td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-left: none; width: 47pt;" width="63"><b>Weight</b></td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-left: none; width: 51pt;" width="68"><b>BTU/hr - Upright
Canister</b></td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-left: none; width: 55pt;" width="73"><b>BTU/hr - White
Gasoline</b></td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-left: none; width: 67pt;" width="89"><b>BTU/hr - Inverted
Canister*</b></td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl66" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt; width: 58pt;" width="77"><b>Booster+1</b></td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 47pt;" width="63">310
g</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 51pt;" width="68">7000</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 55pt;" width="73">9600</td>
<td align="right" class="xl68" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 67pt;" width="89">10,500</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15.0pt;">
<td class="xl66" height="20" style="border-top: none; height: 15.0pt; width: 58pt;" width="77"><b>Hydra</b></td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 47pt;" width="63">308
g</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 51pt;" width="68">6100</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 55pt;" width="73">7400</td>
<td align="right" class="xl65" style="border-left: none; border-top: none; width: 67pt;" width="89">8500</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
<span style="font-size: 12.8px; text-align: center;">*Estimated.</span></div>
<br />
Here's a photo of a 2.6 L pot on the Booster+1. Note that the pot supports extend beyond the edges of the pot even though this is a fairly big pot. The Booster+1 can take some pretty big pots.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhX_EPYxVNLShZws-ncidM6AfJ60DsU7bCuM7z34Vr7o9iza8SVX0VGoudUnlc-nwH3OaC8Ftk4kQyfLEjkZcJ8JVWd0cKqfOY3vWRyregJxhanM5VxvOiFNeEF8aXB_Ok3z6H-uMjCTyA/s1600/IMG_6426.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhX_EPYxVNLShZws-ncidM6AfJ60DsU7bCuM7z34Vr7o9iza8SVX0VGoudUnlc-nwH3OaC8Ftk4kQyfLEjkZcJ8JVWd0cKqfOY3vWRyregJxhanM5VxvOiFNeEF8aXB_Ok3z6H-uMjCTyA/s640/IMG_6426.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">A 2.6 liter pot on the Kovea Booster+1. <br />
Note how the pot supports still have more length out beyond the edges of the pot.<br />
One can put some pretty big cookware on a Booster+1.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<b style="font-size: x-large;">Flame Control</b><br />
<br />
<ul>
<li>Flame control when using an upright canister of gas is excellent. A very low simmer can be easily maintained. </li>
<li>Flame control when using an inverted canister of gas is very good but a bit trickier. A reasonably good simmer can be maintained. </li>
<li>Flame control on white gasoline is good but not great. If one gets the stove good and hot (as would normally occur when bringing water to a boil), one can get a pretty good simmer. However, eventually the stove cools down, and the flame starts to sputter. The simmering lasts for a pretty good amount of time though and is generally better than a lot of comparable stoves that only have an at-the-bottle valve.</li>
<li>Flame control on kerosene is poor. One cannot get a decent simmer, and one cannot turn up the stove very high. Only on moderate settings was the flame stable</li>
</ul>
<br />
<b style="font-size: x-large;">Standard Fuel Bottles</b><br />
The good news about the fuel bottle, is that Kovea uses "standard" fuel bottle threads. That is, Kovea uses the same threads as Sigg, MSR, Primus, Optimus, Snow Peak, etc. use in their fuel bottles. So, if you already have one of those brands, you <i>should</i> be able to use the fuel bottle you already have. HOWEVER, check to see if everything works <i>before </i>you head out on the trail. One time I had a Primus bottle whose threads were the same size as all of my other fuel bottles, but my MSR pump couldn't be screwed into that particular bottle. The threads on that particular bottle started too far down the neck of the bottle, and the threaded portion of my MSR pump couldn't quite attach to them.<br />
<br />
Also, make sure the fuel bottle you intend to use is long enough to accommodate the Kovea pump. As I say, hook everything up at home and test it before you head out on the trail.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj4FmVYS1Ocr7xS_S25gOHUXlOo1w4XaLgkRjMYqSpPAqCYuYK7gVpcMzxDhWFTuVPFTFmLL15ICMg4OSiRxBhDNX38o12NGAnk1lGTBZN0GjMiEdgkPWG4pfkNVN1jm_WqllWc6pjebD4/s1600/IMG_3629.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj4FmVYS1Ocr7xS_S25gOHUXlOo1w4XaLgkRjMYqSpPAqCYuYK7gVpcMzxDhWFTuVPFTFmLL15ICMg4OSiRxBhDNX38o12NGAnk1lGTBZN0GjMiEdgkPWG4pfkNVN1jm_WqllWc6pjebD4/s640/IMG_3629.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="font-size: 12.8px;">A Kovea fuel bottle, left. An MSR fuel bottle, right.<br />
The Kovea fuel bottle is an excellent fuel bottle, but Kovea liquid fueled stoves can use any standard threaded fuel bottle.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
<b style="font-size: x-large;">Snow Melting</b><br />
In terms of power, the stove has plenty. I found it to be a good snow melter on liquid fuel. The Booster+1 is rated at 9600 BTU/hr on white gasoline which is about the same as an MSR Whisperlite Universal. The output on canister gas <i>with the canister right side up </i>(i.e. vapor feed) is considerably less, 7400 BTU/hr. <span style="font-weight: bold;">However</span>, if you invert the canister (i.e. liquid feed), BTU output will go up and will typically be <i>higher</i> than on white gasoline. Kovea does not provide figures for inverted canister operation, but assuming that the Booster+1 follows along the lines of other similar stoves, the rating should be about 10,500 BTU/hr.<br />
<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjUK0Gx4VRaAh0qsK6xkkqW2_BV4Jp0MCx1sjDCH1XAoWszt7wBNlFXUGUncELgPQX350FxRL7eDHT19Rdj6dPnitfHAF2IHUj-6D1cb_gstlyo-GpXOHhKPvYHv1r1UnjMmmwuh8R46J8/s1600/IMG_6205.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjUK0Gx4VRaAh0qsK6xkkqW2_BV4Jp0MCx1sjDCH1XAoWszt7wBNlFXUGUncELgPQX350FxRL7eDHT19Rdj6dPnitfHAF2IHUj-6D1cb_gstlyo-GpXOHhKPvYHv1r1UnjMmmwuh8R46J8/s640/IMG_6205.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Melting snow on a Kovea Booster+1.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
Uh, but of course in snow, you'll want to use some kind of base lest your stove sink into the snow – and your dinner into the same.<br />
<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhCl4QY1OqTzARz2s8O8Mwm_VfsGuUisXBx18RPPknX9hNwAFXLDy1fuqTZU3JKq29UyQrbE7TfNhs0hL2Wrdt3dk7eQp5E21TgkngdRMmo8egg83m387PaNc0FMthkA1q11-hFubjjKfI/s1600/IMG_6185.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhCl4QY1OqTzARz2s8O8Mwm_VfsGuUisXBx18RPPknX9hNwAFXLDy1fuqTZU3JKq29UyQrbE7TfNhs0hL2Wrdt3dk7eQp5E21TgkngdRMmo8egg83m387PaNc0FMthkA1q11-hFubjjKfI/s640/IMG_6185.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The Booster+1 needs to be used with some kind of pad or platform when in snow (just about all stoves do).</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
<b style="font-size: x-large;">Beware of Imitations!</b><br />
I've seen stoves that look similar to a real Booster+1, stoves that even come in a box with the same color scheme and say "Booster+1" on the side. <br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhEFvxSMLmzylgs87-mSXFDZ7_OdrnVSK8qVjYPB_g707SAMu6RFV6b9H4RpYNVpO_3No3BmESFL_O4H2XjCAYwPflmwbllscdt29NanVlanyIWwNizvdvjY5Fs8WMdJMNtpTqrRxny8JM/s1600/Fake_Booster2.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="478" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhEFvxSMLmzylgs87-mSXFDZ7_OdrnVSK8qVjYPB_g707SAMu6RFV6b9H4RpYNVpO_3No3BmESFL_O4H2XjCAYwPflmwbllscdt29NanVlanyIWwNizvdvjY5Fs8WMdJMNtpTqrRxny8JM/s640/Fake_Booster2.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">An outrageous fake Booster+1 as seen on Amazon.com<br />
Just look at the legs. <b style="font-size: 12.8px;"><span style="font-size: large;">This is <i>NOT</i> a real Booster+1</span></b></td></tr>
</tbody></table>
Beware of cheap clones. Such clones are not up to mainstream manufacturing and safety standards and have been banned by several countries. <b>Clones can be very dangerous.</b> Recall that stove fuels are highly flammable and that there is always the risk of an explosion. Saving a few dollars is not worth it when you're risking a trip to the burn ward of a hospital – or worse.<br />
<br />
Check your source carefully and examine photos closely. My recommendation is that you buy from an authorized dealer so that you a) know that you're getting the real thing and b) have a warranty. Stoves bought on e-Bay, even if authentic, do not have a warranty. Only stoves bought from an authorized dealer have a warranty. I know that Campsaver.com carries the Booster+1, and I believe that Mass Drop occasionally offers the Booster+1 in it's "drops" (group buys), but check around. I'm sure there are other legitimate outlets for the stove. If you see it on e-Bay or Alibaba, it's not an authorized outlet, and you may not even be getting the real thing.<br />
<div>
<br />
<b style="font-size: x-large;">Cost</b><br />
MSRP is $170 USD, but shop around. A careful shopper need not pay full price. As I mentioned earlier, Mass Drop organizes group buys where an individual (such as yourself) can get in with a group and thereby get a group discount from the manufacturer. Similarly, many on-line retailers will sell for less than MSRP. Camp Saver had the Booster+1 for $30 off as of 21 February 2017. Word to the wise: Shop around.<br />
<br /></div>
<b style="font-size: x-large;">Summary</b><br />
<b style="font-size: x-large;">The Kovea Booster+1</b><br />
<i>What's good about it</i><br />
<ul>
<li>Field maintainable</li>
<li>Solid, beefy, built like a tank</li>
<li>No jet change when changing fuels</li>
<li>Rotating coupler allows one to purge the fuel line AND keeps hands clean</li>
</ul>
<i>What's not so good about it</i><br />
<ul>
<li>Heavy</li>
<li>A bit on the bulky side</li>
<li>Loud, but not exceptionally so. Normal for this type of design.</li>
</ul>
<div>
<i>Recommendations for improvement</i></div>
<div>
<ul>
<li>Work with a native speaker of English and re-write the instructions. The current instructions are in poor English and are difficult to understand.</li>
<li>Lighten the stove by at least 50 grams (about 2 ounces) and preferably 75 grams. The Hexon is in this weight class, so I know that Kovea can do it.</li>
<li>Bring the fuel line in closer to the body so that the stove is more compact</li>
<li>Change the red cap on the fuel connector threads such that it has a lanyard attaching it to the pump</li>
<li>Make the stove fully kerosene compatible by:</li>
<ul>
<li>Supplying a smaller aperture jet for those who really need to use kerosene. Yes, not having to change jets is wonderful, but in some areas kerosene is all that is going to be available, and it wouldn't take much to supply a smaller aperture jet. People who need to use kerosene are just going to have to accept the need for a jet change</li>
<li>Increase thermal feedback to the generator for improved vaporization for kerosene. The current level of thermal absorption from the flame is inadequate for kerosene. A brass sleeve around and bonded to the generator might be all that is needed.</li>
</ul>
</ul>
</div>
<b style="font-size: x-large;">The Kovea Booster+1: Highly recommended</b><br />
<b style="font-size: x-large;"><br /></b>
<b style="font-size: x-large;"></b><br />
I hope that the preceding text and photos will give you a good sense of the stove. By all means feel free to ask questions and make comments in the comments section, below.<br />
<div>
<br /></div>
I thank you for joining me,<br />
<br />
HJ<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Manufacturer and Technical Data</span></b><br />
Date Available: Currently available.<br />
Manufacturer: Kovea<br />
Manufacturer's Website: http://kovea.com<br />
MSRP: $170<br />
Weight (measured): 310 g/10.9 oz<br />
Materials: Primarily steel<br />
Colors available: See photos.<br />
Requirements: Either a) A standard threaded canister of gas, sold separately, or b) a fuel bottle of white gasoline with compatible threads. (and a pot of course, sold separately)<br />
Warranty Information: Contact Kovea through their website (see above).<br />
<br />
<b style="font-size: x-large;">Disclosures</b><br />
<br />
<ol>
<li>The stove used in this review was provided at no cost to me by Kovea. I receive no remuneration from Kovea for my review other than I typically get to keep the stoves I review. After the first hundred stoves or so (I'm probably up to a couple hundred now), yet another stove isn't much of a big deal and has no bearing on how I write my reviews.</li>
<li>I receive no remuneration from any seller (Mass Drop, Camp Saver, or any other) of this stove. Indeed, I have no financial relationships with any retailers of stoves. I however have purchased items as a regular member of the buying public from many retailers, just like anyone else. I mention the sellers that are herein named simply because I'm trying to tip you off on a good deal. I don't get any kick backs or anything, so it's not like I really care where you buy your stove. However, I'd feel bad if people went off and paid a high dollar amount simply because I listed said high dollar amount as the MSRP. <b>Do <i>NOT</i> feel obligated to pay the MSRP</b> listed in this review. Don't be a dunce! Shop around!</li>
</ol>
<br />
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<tr></tr>
</tbody></table>
Hikin' Jimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.com18tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-54739319163321163942017-02-12T08:33:00.002-08:002017-02-22T09:04:28.579-08:00The Kovea Booster+1 – Multi Fuel or Just Dual Fuel?The Kovea Booster+1 stove is advertised as running on white gasoline (e.g. Coleman Fuel) and canister gas only – but I keep hearing that it can be run on other fuels like kerosene. I've even read reviews to that effect.<br />
<br />
<b>UPDATE 21 February 2017</b>: I have completed my <u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/02/review-kovea-booster1-dual-fuel.html" target="_blank">full review of the Kovea Booster+1</a></u>. My full review includes further information on alternative fuels (fuels other than canister gas and white gasoline).<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgbT3RBtjNG1rUCf9OBHhZY7xWX8rR-4IehwduB4vJilR3RerAnvn0hxcmjll0cl3cyZOwRYieaGdPMfjKgY1y3tuhHDphDEFQYTQILhOqsPT6Qcq-x38JfKac96dCWyTuBG_Y3GO93zgQ/s1600/IMG_5659%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgbT3RBtjNG1rUCf9OBHhZY7xWX8rR-4IehwduB4vJilR3RerAnvn0hxcmjll0cl3cyZOwRYieaGdPMfjKgY1y3tuhHDphDEFQYTQILhOqsPT6Qcq-x38JfKac96dCWyTuBG_Y3GO93zgQ/s640/IMG_5659%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The Kovea Booster+1 Dual Fuel Stove</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
So, I thought I'd try it.<br />
<br />
<div>
I took my Booster+1 out the last three weekends and ran it on kerosene. Here's a video of one of my tests:<br />
<iframe allowfullscreen="" class="YOUTUBE-iframe-video" data-thumbnail-src="https://i.ytimg.com/vi/W9XK_xXeENU/0.jpg" frameborder="0" height="532" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/W9XK_xXeENU?feature=player_embedded" style="clear: left; float: left;" width="640"></iframe></div>
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As I think you can see from the video, the Booster+1 can run on kerosene, but not as well as with fuels for which it was designed. However, it's good to know that, in a pinch, one can run on kerosene. To do so, one should be aware of a few things such as:<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><b>Priming</b></span><br />
As with most liquid petroleum based fueled stoves, one must "prime" the stove, that is, one must burn something in the burner of the stove to preheat the "generator" before running the stove. The generator is that portion of the fuel line that passes through the flame of the stove. The heat of the stove causes the fuel, as it passes through the generator, to turn from liquid into a vapor. It is the vapor that is burned. If the fuel enters the burner still in liquid form, you'll get a big sooty mess.<br />
<br />
With white gasoline type stoves, one can prime with the stove's regular fuel. White gasoline, when used for priming, does leave a bit of soot, but it's not too bad. Kerosene is another story. Kerosene is a big sooty mess to prime with. One really needs to bring a little squeeze bottle of alcohol for priming. One can use pretty much any clean burning alcohol for priming including ethyl alcohol, methyl alcohol (methanol), or denatured alcohol. Do not use isopropyl alcohol such as HEET brand sold in the red container (yellow container is fine) or the alcohol sold in drug stores as "rubbing" alcohol. One doesn't need a lot of alcohol for priming, maybe 5ml (for white gas) to 10 ml (for kerosene) per prime. Priming with alcohol is actually a good practice even with white gas since alcohol is so clean burning and is easier to control in terms of amount dispensed. If you've ever allowed too much fuel to flow into the priming area of a stove, you'll know exactly what I mean by that last remark.<br />
<br />
Get your stove good and hot before opening up the valve to let kerosene flow through to the burner.<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Moderation</span></b><br />
Once your stove is good and hot, you can open up the valve, gradually, and let kerosene start to flow to the burner. Be ready to quickly turn off the flow if large yellow flames spring up. <br />
<br />
Even when fully hot, one has to run the stove at a moderate level. If one opens up the valve too far with kerosene, one will start to see little droplets of un-vaporized (i.e. liquid) fuel shooting out of the jet. There just isn't enough thermal feedback in the stove to vaporize large amounts of kerosene. One has to keep the stove turned down a bit for good operation.<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Conclusion?</span></b><br />
The Booster+1 is really a white gasoline and canister gas stove – but, with proper technique, kerosene can be made to work in a pinch. One must however have some kind of priming fuel in order to properly prime the stove.<br />
<br />
Thanks for joining me,<br />
<br />
HJHikin' Jimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.com8tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4359823178932343980.post-38500542545829789752017-01-25T23:24:00.004-08:002017-02-08T21:38:22.484-08:00MSR PocketRocket 2 – Review Supplement #2I've gotten a couple more questions from readers re the new MSR PocketRocket 2. I'll list the questions and my responses, below.<br />
<br />
In case you didn't catch the actual review itself, here's a link: <u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2016/12/review-new-msr-pocket-rocket-2.html" target="_blank">Review – The New MSR PocketRocket 2</a></u><br />
<br />
Since this is Review Supplement #2, yes, there is a <u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2016/12/msr-pocket-rocket-2-review-supplement.html" target="_blank">Review Supplement #1</a></u>.<br />
See also: <u><a href="https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/01/the-msr-pocket-rocket-2-vs-soto-amicus.html">The MSR Pocket Rocket 2 vs. the Soto Amicus</a></u><br />
<br />
<b>Q</b>. Can an MSR PocketRocket 2 fit into a MSR Titan Kettle (850 ml capacity) along with a 110 g canister of gas?<br />
<br />
<b>A</b>. Yes, it fits just fine, no trouble at all. It fits right inside; the kettle's lid closes tightly; you don't even have to take the lid off the canister.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgRHamVNSOErmcuHaQc7x7lNA0Mc4B9q-QHSsQlltscAXCu0CQTfL0GpAign4ARyl_MhKudFOauChj41_c6S1P7r5eUq8gE1EuoE3tqSInx3WYZleBLU0B7qb4Rv3q1ItjIDosRth2CXjM/s1600/IMG_6083%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgRHamVNSOErmcuHaQc7x7lNA0Mc4B9q-QHSsQlltscAXCu0CQTfL0GpAign4ARyl_MhKudFOauChj41_c6S1P7r5eUq8gE1EuoE3tqSInx3WYZleBLU0B7qb4Rv3q1ItjIDosRth2CXjM/s640/IMG_6083%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">An MSR PocketRocket 2 and a 110 g canister of gas fits just fine inside an MSR Titan Kettle</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<b>Q</b>. Can an MSR PocketRocket 2 fit into an Evernew 600 ml pot along with a 110 g canister of gas?<br />
<br />
<b>A</b>. Uh, no. Not even close. <br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjglki8NWQNzYma42IezmNt_VB4GnwKfDdd2YajB-xGKfsw6kRYRlJ_nRaIJC6Qu4EaJPS6fwz1OVJXn3aETuWjVOfX224CNt-zaHYf_YaBlfgPbCi0R4NaHS9OCRXIIwt_EDHNpS1ba1Y/s1600/IMG_6087%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjglki8NWQNzYma42IezmNt_VB4GnwKfDdd2YajB-xGKfsw6kRYRlJ_nRaIJC6Qu4EaJPS6fwz1OVJXn3aETuWjVOfX224CNt-zaHYf_YaBlfgPbCi0R4NaHS9OCRXIIwt_EDHNpS1ba1Y/s640/IMG_6087%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">A 110 g canister of gas and an MSR PocketRocket 2 can<i><b>not</b></i> both fit inside an Evernew 600 ml pot.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
Interestingly, you can fit a canister – just the canister – inside the pot if you a) take the cap off the canister, and b) turn the canister upside down.<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgNRKhFtzoyvB7_nyT9eWyHdvYXaahrlvmZo6QbB8OZ76SEbiLVh49v7db3Wj9Wj9FW1c_ypHK-1Cix8JPZcj-8mIRCrVsw6c5NrKVrlyotgL1oYSzBNo7atSrt4RhnqoGjPH7flKPNraI/s1600/IMG_6088%255B1%255D.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgNRKhFtzoyvB7_nyT9eWyHdvYXaahrlvmZo6QbB8OZ76SEbiLVh49v7db3Wj9Wj9FW1c_ypHK-1Cix8JPZcj-8mIRCrVsw6c5NrKVrlyotgL1oYSzBNo7atSrt4RhnqoGjPH7flKPNraI/s640/IMG_6088%255B1%255D.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">One can fit a 110 g canister of gas inside an Evernew 600 ml pot, but you have to turn the canister upside down.<br />
The dimple in the pot's lid will fit into the concave base of the canister.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
OK, that's it for today, short and sweet.<br />
<br />
Thanks as always for joining me,<br />
<br />
HJHikin' Jimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01554269915148144573noreply@blogger.com0