Investigations into and adventures with backpacking stoves including solid fuel (e.g. ESBIT), alcohol, gas, "white" gas (Coleman type fuel), wood, and kerosene.
I'm not quite ready to review either the Kovea MoonWalker or the new MSR WindPro II (look for my WindPro II review in the next couple of weeks), but I thought I'd let people at least have a look at the two stoves and take a quick look at their relative packability.
First the Kovea MoonWalker (also know as the Kovea Camp 4).
The Kovea MoonWalker (Kovea Camp 4) stove compared to a can of Coca Cola
Second, the MSR WindPro II.
An MSR Windpro II compared to a can of Coca Cola
Next, I thought I'd try putting a Kovea MoonWalker (Camp 4) into a Snow Peak 1000ml pot. It fits just fine.
A Kovea MoonWalker in a 1000ml Snow Peak pot
Of course the real question is can I also fit a canister of gas in there? As it turns out, you can.
A Kovea MoonWalker and a Snow Peak 110g canister of gas in a Snow Peak 1000ml pot
And how does the MSR WindPro II fit? Well, it fits too although the MoonWalker was just a bit more compact.
An MSR WindPro II and a 110g Snow Peak canister in a 1000ml Snow Peak pot.
I also tried fitting a 220g canister of gas into the pot -- it didn't work with either stove.
Well, that's it for today. Like I say, I'm not quite ready to publish reviews just yet, but look for a review of the WindPro II in a few weeks.
Thanks for joining me on another Adventure In Stoving,
HJ
Technical Appendix
Weights Kovea MoonWalker 294g 10.37oz MSR WindPro 193g 6.81oz (not shown in above photos) MSR WindPro II 187g 6.60oz
Interestingly, the WindPro II as measured on my gram scale at home is just a bit lighter (6g) than the old WindPro.
Basically, the MicroRocket looks like it's just a lighter version of the PocketRocket, but with some minor improvements. In particular, the pot supports are shorter and supposedly (per MSR) stronger, which would go a long way toward correcting the PocketRocket's Achilles heel. Reportedly, the MicroRocket will be 15% lighter than the PocketRocket which would mean that the MicroRocket would weigh about 2.5 oz. A German press release I saw lists the weight at 75g which would be 2.6 oz. Either way, it's a very nice, light stove.
An MSR PocketRocket (left) and an MSR MicroRocket (right)
MSR MicroRocket (left) and MSR PocketRocket (Right)
A second "improvement" is the addition of a separate piezoelectric starter (see first photo). The starter is a stand alone unit not built into the stove. I'm not quite sure about the utility of this. Why not just bring matches, a lighter, or a firesteel? Matches, a lighter, or a firesteel seem like they'd be a lot more versatile. With matches, a lighter, or a firesteel, one can light a variety of fires, not just a stove. I haven't seen MSR's piezoelectric starter, but I think a piezoelectric starter would only work on a stove. It'll be interesting to see if their separate piezoelectric starter catches on.
The pot supports on the new MicroRocket fold up a bit differently and the valve control folds over the body of the stove. It all collapses down into what looks to be a very compact package indeed.
An MSR MicroRocket folded (left) and piezoelectric ignition (right)
The new case for the MicroRocket looks more compact overall when compared to the case for the PocketRocket.
Left to right:Folded MSR MicroRocket, piezoelectric ignigtion, a MicroRocket case, and a PocketRocket case
Here's Steve Grimes of MSR discussing the new MicroRocket:
The second new stove is the Whisperlite Universal which is a "hybrid" stove (MSR's words) that will burn both liquid fuel and gas.
Apparently the Universal is a Whisperlite Internationale with significant revisions. Gone are the wire legs, and the generator has been significantly revised. Note also the black plastic canister stand which holds the canister upside down. It appears that MSR is finally conceding that their remote canister stoves work with the canister inverted (i.e. liquid feed), a fact that they have mysteriously downplayed for years. It's a wonder that MSR wouldn't market the heck out of the fact that their remote canister stoves can operate with the canister inverted since an inverted canister stove can operate in temperatures at least 20 degrees Fahrenheit (about 10 degrees Celsius) colder than conventional upright canister stoves. The Whisperlite Universal supposedly has multiple connectors that can be swapped out for use with gas or liquid fuel. The Whisperlite Universal comes with three jets (much like a Primus Omnifuel) for use with differing fuels.
A closer look at the burner of the MSR Whisperlite Universal
From what I can see so far, this new Whisperlite should be a very interesting stove capable of a wide variety of modes: upright (vapor feed) gas, inverted (liquid feed) gas, and liquid fuel (white gasoline or kerosene). Let's hope that they have not only added a new fuel to the old Internationale's repertoire but also increased the Internationale's reliability with kerosene. If in fact the Whisperlite Universal does have increased reliability with kerosene, the Universal might indeed be a really good choice for the world traveler, particularly if the Universal were more accessible from a price perspective. Stoves currently on the market that burn gas, white gasoline, and kerosene tend to be pretty expensive.
The new Whisperlite Universal seems to have an upgraded fuel line. The fuel line on newer MSR stoves like the Simmerlite and Windpro is thinner and more flexible, making the stove easier to pack. It looks like the Whisperlite has now also been upgraded to the new more flexible fuel line. Assuming the new fuel line is just as reliable as the old one, the more flexible fuel line is a change I heartily applaud.
It's possible, but I don't know this for a fact, that the new Whisperlite Universal will be a lighter stove than either the regular Whisperlite or the Whisperlite Internationale. I say this just based on the legs and the overall look of the stove. Of course, any weight shed on the legs may be regained depending on how they do the connectors. Assuming that the new Whisperlite Universal uses the standard MSR duraseal pump (look at the photo below; notice the duraseal pump in her hand), there will have to be some kind adapter that the fuel hose will plug into so that a either a standard pump or gas canister can be attached.
MSR is smart, they have made the Whisperlite Universal so one doesn't have to carry the canister stand in warm weather, when you really don't need to invert the canister.
The canister stand of an MSR Whisperlite Universal
Here's a video on the Whisperlite Universal:
Lastly, the third "new" stove: The Windpro II. MSR has improved the Windpro by adding a rotating coupler and including a canister stand that holds the canister in inverted position. Again, it looks as though MSR is finally publicly acknowledging that their remote canister stoves can be used in inverted canister mode (liquid feed). It's interesting to me that it took them this long to acknowledge what has been there all along. They spent a lot of money on the Reactor, which they push as a high end mountaineering stove, when they had a gas stove that would work in much colder conditions way before anyone even thought of the Reactor.
Here are a couple of photos of the new, improved Windpro II. In the first photo, note the MSR Whisperlite Universal in the background which appears to use the same canister stand.
Here's a video on the Windpro II
I don't have any photos, but per a press release dated July 18 from Cascade Designs, apparently MSR has also upgraded the Whisperlite Internationale if I'm reading things correctly, so it looks as though there will be three versions of the Whisperlite sold:
The regular Whisperlite
The Whisperlite Internationale (Improved Version)
The Whisperlite Universal
Perhaps no changes are being made to the regular Whisperlite?
All of the new stoves should be available in January 2012.
The WindPro is a remote canister stove, meaning that the stove uses a canister of gas that is attached to the stove via fuel hose rather than being directly attached to the stove. Here you can see the stove and the gas canister as well as the fuel hose that connects them.
What's that you say? You think the WindPro looks just like last week's stove, the Simmerlite? Well you're right about that (Simmerlite, top; WindPro, bottom).
But take a look at the connectors. That's what distinguishes the two. The Simmerlite runs on white gasoline, a liquid fuel, and the WindPro runs on canister gas.
So, what's the big deal about it being a remote canister stove? Well, on the more common upright type of canister stove, the burner mounts directly on the canister. In other words, you have a very hot flame very close to a very flammable gas. If you use a windscreen around the burner, you will deflect heat toward and trap heat around the canister. Heat + flammable gas = bad. Very bad. Generally it's not a good idea to use a windscreen with an upright type canister stove unless a) you really know what you're doing and b) are extremely diligent about constantly monitoring the temperature of the tank via the "ouch" test (if the canister is hot enough to make you say "ouch," that's WAY too hot; TURN IT OFF IMMEDIATELY). If you don't have a wind screen around your stove, on a windy day you could quite literally go through an entire tank of gas without ever bringing a pot of water to boil.
Enter the remote canister stove. If you put a windscreen around the burner, the canister, which is some distance away, will not be affected. In fact, since the windscreen is between the canister and the flame, it's not only OK to use a windscreen, it's actually safer to operate the stove with a windscreen. A windscreen not only makes your stove more efficient it also protects the canister.
Note in this photo how the windscreen sits between the canister and the burner, protecting the flame AND protecting the canister.
Add to that the fact that remote canister stoves have a much lower center of gravity and tend to be much more stable. Particularly with a larger pot on top of a small canister stove, the arrangement can be quite "tippy," and your dinner may wind up spilled.
So, why doesn't everyone just use a remote canister stove? I mean who wants to waste gas that they've just packed up a mountainside or risk spilling their dinner? Well, first there's the up front cost. Remote canister stoves can often be double the price of upright canister stoves. Second, there's the weight. An upright canister stove uses the canister itself for support; it has no legs. Also, an upright canister has no hose. The hose and legs of a remote canister stove all add weight. Upright canister stoves are typically much lighter than remote canister stoves. Then lastly there's compactness. The legs and hose of a remote canister stove take up space.
In short, as in much of life, which stove is the better stove is a series of trade offs. Which stove is the better stove for a given individual or a given use depends largely on the style of that individual, the conditions (wind, weather, elevation, etc.), and on the way in which the stove will be used.
For larger groups (and therefore for larger pots), the more stable remote canister stove is the better choice.
For areas prone to wind, a remote canister stove is the better choice.
For smaller groups or soloists, an upright canister stove will work just fine.
For those on a budget, the upright canister stove is the logical choice.
For fair weather, why not just take a lightweight upright canister stove? Why carry more than you need?
But before you make your decision, there's yet another advantage to a remote canister stove, a big advantage: liquid feed mode. First, let me be clear: Not all remote canister stoves can operate in liquid feed mode. In order to function properly and safely, a gas stove must have vaporized gas (not liquefied gas like the gas in the canister). In liquid feed mode, to turn the liquefied gas in the canister into vaporized gas, a stove must have a generator (aka a "pre heat loop"). The generator is an area where liquefied gas is exposed to high heat such that the liquefied gas vaporizes (turns from a liquid into a gas). If your remote canister stove does not have a generator, do not attempt to feed it liquefied gas.
How do I know if my stove has a generator? Take a look at this photo.
Note the silver colored tube that proceeds from the left side of the burner around the front of the burner and up the right hand side of the burner. This is the generator. Now, take at look at the top left side of the burner in the above photo. If you look closely, you can see the generator, and you can see that the flames from the burner are actually hitting the generator. Needless to say, the liquefied gas flowing through the generator is being exposed to high heat and does vaporize.
Well, that's very nice, but why should I care that I can use liquid feed mode? Answer: Cold weather. Your stove needs vaporized gas. In cold weather, gas doesn't vaporize properly. In liquid feed mode you rely not on the weather but on the flame to vaporize your gas. In other words, you can get the vaporized gas your stove needs even in weather that is quite cold. Depending on the design of your stove, you may be able to operate your stove in liquid feed mode in temperatures down to -10F/-23C. By contrast, an upright canister stove isn't much good in temperatures lower than 20F/-6C.
Well, this liquid feed mode sounds very interesting, but as a practical matter, how do I go about it? Well, you invert (turn upside down) the canister. After inversion, the valve is at the bottom of the canister, and the pressure in the canister forces liquefied gas out the bottom of the canister. Before you start, it's best to put something heavy (like a pot of water) on the stove so the stove won't tip over as you invert the canister. The recommended way to use a stove in inverted canister mode is to start the stove in normal mode, let the stove get hot, turn down the flame to low, and then invert the canister, keeping the canister low the entire time. The stove will surge a bit when you invert the canister because of the physics of a liquid turning rapidly to gas. Keeping the canister low and turning the flame down low help keep the surge to a minimum. Leaning the canister against something will keep the canister inverted (see photo).
Now, here's our WindPro, happily chugging away in inverted canister mode, and, as you can clearly see, she has handily passed the "tea test."
Ah! I see that breakfast is served, so you'll have to excuse me.
I thank you for joining me on another adventure in stoving.
HJ
Some summary information:
What's good about it?
For a remote canister stove, it is light and compact.
It has a generator (pre heat loop) so it can be used in inverted canister liquid feed mode.
The fuel hose is long and flexible which facilitates using the stove in inverted canister liquid feed mode.
It's perfectly safe with a wind screen.
In liquid feed mode, it will work well in low temperatures, perhaps even subzero temperatures. Note: I'm not trying to be wishy-washy. I just haven't done the field testing needed for me to feel confident in proclaming this a viable option in subzero weather.
It's a canister stove. Gas is really convenient.
What's bad about it?
The WindPro uses relatively heavy steel canisters. Lighter canisters like the Powermax canister are available.
As with all canister stoves, you have the problem of what to do with empty canisters. In some places there are some recycling programs, but recycling is not environmentally free. There is some cost to the environment for delivering gas in convenient little canisters.
Inverted canister mode is a little "fiddly." There are other gas stoves specifically designed for liquid feed mode that you don't have to fiddle with as much.
The pot supports are a little slidey. They could be a little more grippy.
Overall, the MSR WindPro is a good light weight winter capable stove.
